quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
The US taxpayer has no interests in Ukraine.

One can guarantee the billions the U.S. has thrown at Ukraine mostly ended up in other places instead of relief or aid for the citizens or their "war effort". Before Putin's actions, the U.S. has given billions to them during the Obama presidency, none of it accountable, with evidence showing that oligarchies controlled the money, laundered through oil and energy companies. And guess who was part of that laundering scheme.



The Ukraine mess reminds me of the Haiti scam during their massive earthquake years back, when relief funding was almost 15 billion dollars. Haiti citizen lives are still in disarray from the quake, no relief whatsoever because the money was siphoned off to other sources. Those ultimately in charge of dispersion of funds were simply not going to let the peons get the cash.

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Peace in our time huh?

Oh, that's just brilliant. Yes, after Putin defeats the Ukraine, he's going to continue his march across Europe, right?

Oh, that's right- Poland is next. It's only a NATO country, so, no big deal.

Yes, this is exactly like Europe in 1938 with Neville Chamberlain waving a frail piece of paper in the wind.

Brilliant

Putin can't march past Ukraine, but he can take the smaller states.
Touching Poland or Finland would be suicidal for Russia.

Ultimately Ukraine will be seen as a big loss for NATO when Russia over runs Ukraine.
All Russia has to do is decide to throw 2 million regulars into the sway and it's over instead of this grinding down the defenders.

Those of you who "STAND WITH UKRAINE!!!" can take your money and send it directly to the crooks over there. Leave the American taxpayer out of this scam.

Go ahead. Take your next ten paychecks and send them to Zelenskyy's wife, because another shopping trip is about due.

Man, oh, man. They are buggering you and you are begging for more.

How many has been tossed out to uncovered corruption now?

I wouldn't doubt that Biden has been continually blackmailed into sending aid as to let the truth of his families deals there REALLY come out.

For those who think the cost of fighting the big bad Nazi wannabe Russians is insignificant and a very good investment I have a question or two. Who is going to rebuild that fledgling democracy, I mean absolute dictatorship once the war is over or do we leave it sitting in ashes? How much will it cost? Does it give you any pause that investment firms like BlackRock and banks like CitiBank are all in on the rebuilding of that money pit? Sorry, I've had it with spending money on a country this every bit as corrupt as the enemy they're fighting. NO MORE MONEY. NO MORE WEAPONS.

Got lots of Blue and Yellow flags around here. The same Traitors would never fly an American flag either. Makes me sick.

Our criminal gov't is guilty of stealing our money and using it in a war the American people do not support, and from what I understand laundering it back to themselves (the traitor left) to further screw the American people further. Globalist trash need to die, painfully and slow.

Around here, all the same leftist bandwagon jumping Numbnuts exchanged their “Hate Has No Home Here” signs for Ukraine flag signs and flags.

It’s especially amusing when these idiots can’t figure out that they are flying the flag or displaying the sign upside down.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
For those who think the cost of fighting the big bad Nazi wannabe Russians ...

The irony there is that we seem to be supporting and sending billions of dollars to actual neo-Nazis.

The United States is drowning in debt. We're printing money like there's no tomorrow. We have an incompetent leftist sympathizer in the White House who has never actually been in charge. Many financial analysts are predicting a recession or worse. We have a hostile nuclear superpower penetrating our airspace while President Grandpa and the woke Pentagon doing NOTHING to stop it and we're giving away military goods and dollars like we have an inexhaustible supply.

And you think the Ukraine is where our resources should be going??

You want to refer back to history? Try comparing conditions today to those just before the Great Depression.

"Stand with Ukraine"? How about standing with the United States? We cannot fix the world, but we can try to fix ourselves. Good God. WAKE UP

I’m of the belief now that the population has to learn the lessons again. The only thing that really teaches people is transformational pain.

You're wrong about this, Para.

You can cherry-pick incidents of graft in aid to Ukraine, but the material donated to the war effort is making it to the front lines and making a difference. The Ukrainians are actively investing and prosecuting politicians who mishandle aid funds. This isn't Iraq, with pallets of cash and no accountability.

Much of the dollar amount in aid provided is the estimated value a military equipment we give. Those values include the full replacement cost of our obsolete equipment. We're dumping M113s into the ocean to make artificial reefs. They might as well be put to good use!

We're also completely dismantling Russia's stake in the global arms industry. Weapons have always been a key export, and now no one will buy their second rate garbage. At the same time, NATO allies are flocking to buy American equipment.

How did Biden goad the Russians into this war? They started the troop buildup during the Trump administration. This was clearly in the works for a long time.

Russia does not have the right to a buffer state. It doesn't have the right to invade it's neighbors, and to ignore it doing so is appeasement. it has violated the Minsk agreement that we helped broker between Russia and Ukraine and cannot be allowed to profit from doing so.

What happens when the Baltics are next? They were part of the Soviet Union, and Putin openly declares them Russian territory. They are NATO members, but are you really going to be willing to go to war over Latvia? That's the gamble he might take. That's where isolationism gets us.

Lastly, I think Churchill is an apt comparison. You seem to forget that the UK was completely unprepared for war, and that Churchill did beg the US for equipment, which he got in the form of Lend-Lease.

He said: "We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire. Neither the sudden shock of battle, nor the long-drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down. Give us the tools, and we will finish the job."

That is the exact sentiment I see in Ukraine today.

You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I, and I didn't realize citing examples of why the United States has no business in this conflict was 'cherry picking'. I didn't realize that a complete list was required and anything short of that would nullify my argument.

A huge clue as to how wrong all of this is that the left supports it wholeheartedly. They're not right about anything, and if you want to follow them, be my guest, but do it with your money.

And oh, yes, Zelenskyy is just like Winston Churchill. Sure. Corrupt to his core, he was, and so was England.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

A huge clue as to how wrong all of this is that the left supports it wholeheartedly. They're not right about anything, and if you want to follow them, be my guest, but do it with your money.

That’s as far as you need to go with almost anything. If the left supports it-it ain’t good for us.

My opinion: the sooner we quit supporting them, the sooner the war will end. We should have never gotten involved. It’s not our problem. But because of the crooked politicians money laundering scheme we have increased the nation debt exponentially and the current military sending weapons is depleting ours. And it’s going to bite us in the ass.

The US doesn’t need to be the worlds police anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by dan-o:
You can cherry-pick incidents of graft in aid to Ukraine, but the material donated to the war effort is making it to the front lines and making a difference. The Ukrainians are actively investing and prosecuting politicians who mishandle aid funds. This isn't Iraq, with pallets of cash and no accountability.

You seem pretty sure about your statement. Maybe you could cite the results of an audit as to how the money is spent and the equipment is used. Oh, wait a second... there hasn't a reliable audit nor are there plans for a reliable audit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bytes,

Putin's a bad guy, no question in my mind about that. Consensus here and most of the formerly civilized world says so and, not that it matters, I agree. I may agree but that doesn't change my mind on our bubbling, slavish support of Ukraine (still not our problem).

But bad guy or not there a couple cautionary tales that should make us take a breath, before we decide to stay on the train to stupid.

Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria

All had evil at their helm. We attempted to fix the glitch and as I read it we are 0 for four in regime change. All the chest thumping pictures around Sadam cringing in a hole, about education change in Afghanistan, the execution of the Syrian despot and look at where we are now. Add Egypt to the list, we had a hand in that too.

Now take the destruction of those countries after we saved them and apply that to the Russians. Gigantic in territory, populous, and bat shit crazy already and now destabilize that megalith and watch the fun.

quote:

Those values include the full replacement cost of our obsolete equipment.

I keep seeing people use the word “obsolete.” Inigo Montoya would like to have a word with you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Night..._app&utm_name=iossmf

For those who don't want to bother with Reddit, it's a brag post from a Ukrainian about his whole unit being given PVS31A's, bragging they have instructors, materiel, "everything we need." Those are only in the $15k ballpark new from L3 and still the current standard issue for JSOC, from what I gather. Hardly “obsolete.” It looks like he later got his account suspended for offering to sell a number of these (and captured Russian units), and just took people's money. Grift at the lowest levels, so gee, I wonder if there's a culture of that in Urkaine like exists in Russia? Hmmm.

But no, let's continue giving them billions of dollars of gear like that. It's our moral responsibility or some shit.

Here: these guys have GPNVG18’s. Panoramic night vision, so 100 degree field of view vs 40.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Night..._app&utm_name=iossmf

$42k on the civilian market.

The same people who lied to us about:
Losing the Benghzai embassy, The death of US Ambassador Christopher Stevens, The unstoppable islamic caliphate, Trump and Russian Collusion, Russian Bots stealing the 2016 election, Carter Page, The Mueller Commission, Stormy Daniels, Trumps Ukraine Phone Call, Trumps Impeachment, Hunter Bidens Laptop, January 6th, The origins of COVID, Covid, The Vaccine, Unexplained Sudden Deaths.............

They're suddenly Patriots, Telling the truth, concerned about freedom and democracy. Think how much fraud and outright lies they've sworn to in the last few years.

quote:

Originally posted by dan-o:
You're wrong about this, Para.

You can cherry-pick incidents of graft in aid to Ukraine, but the material donated to the war effort is making it to the front lines and making a difference. The Ukrainians are actively investing and prosecuting politicians who mishandle aid funds.

You do realize the we, the US Taxpayers (technically our children AND their children!), are FUNDING the Ukrainian .gov don't you? A good portion of the largesse provided to the Ukrainians by our misguided/corrupt leaders was specifically to pay .gov salaries, and ensure their budget wish list/requirements were met! The 'Ukrainians' aren't 'actively investing' ANYTHING but our tax dollars!

^^^^^^

You just might say that we are a bunch of slow learners. We've been lucky we always have had a 'next time'. So far.