quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:


[b]2. "Are we going to take down statues to George Washington?"

Speaking of....

Pastor wants to remove statute of Washington from Chicago park.

CHICAGO (CBS) — A Chicago pastor has asked the Emanuel administration to remove the names of two presidents who owned slaves from parks on the South Side, saying the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park.

Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington’s name removed from the park.

“When I see that, I see a person who fought for the liberties, and I see people that fought for the justice and freedom of white America, because at that moment, we were still chattel slavery, and was three-fifths of humans,” he said. “Some people out here ask me, say ‘Well, you know, he taught his slaves to read.’ That’s almost sad; the equivalent of someone who kidnaps you, that you gave them something to eat.”

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rahm take him up on the idea. They can both go to hell.

The rally to protest removal of certain statues had been planned for a long time and received a permit. If only those in support of that cause had attended, there would have been no violence. It was a peaceful gathering until the Antifa/BLM agitators arrived and confronted them. That second group did not have a permit to gather, and certainly should NOT have been allowed to advance toward and mingle with the first group. It may be true that certain factions in the protest group did attend with the idea that it might foment violence, but I say again--there would have been no violence if the other group had not come to confront them. The old saying "It takes 2 to tango" comes to mind.

Law Enforcement should have foreseen this outcome (they had weeks to do so) and taken steps to keep the 2 groups separate from each other. Since one group did not have a permit to gather, they probably should have been dispersed in the first place, but in no case should they have been allowed to attack the group lawfully assembled.

Please note that the above does not mean that I support the views or actions of KKK, NAZI, neo-Nazi, or White Separatists. I see this event as a clear case of a LE failure. (Not necessarily falling on the heads of individual LEOs--if the shoe fits, wear it.)

flashguy

Flashguy, those ARE the facts but MSM, libs and even some Repubs are having no part of it.
This is totally getting out of control and there is no reason for it.
Very sad.

quote:

the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

so to be equal <white history> should be suppressed?

The 60s got nothing on what's coming.

Keep your powder dry.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:


[b]2. "Are we going to take down statues to George Washington?"

Speaking of....

Pastor wants to remove statute of Washington from Chicago park.

CHICAGO (CBS) — A Chicago pastor has asked the Emanuel administration to remove the names of two presidents who owned slaves from parks on the South Side, saying the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park.

Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington’s name removed from the park.

“When I see that, I see a person who fought for the liberties, and I see people that fought for the justice and freedom of white America, because at that moment, we were still chattel slavery, and was three-fifths of humans,” he said. “Some people out here ask me, say ‘Well, you know, he taught his slaves to read.’ That’s almost sad; the equivalent of someone who kidnaps you, that you gave them something to eat.”

2 questions for our Chicago area folks: #1) When was this statue erected; and #2) What was the demographic population of that area at the time of the erection of the statue?

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

Law Enforcement should have foreseen this outcome (they had weeks to do so) and taken steps to keep the 2 groups separate from each other. Since one group did not have a permit to gather, they probably should have been dispersed in the first place, but in no case should they have been allowed to attack the group lawfully assembled.



flashguy

The leftist city administration was part of the plan from long ago.

"Law enforcement" didn't fail. They were directed to stand down.

The progressives succeeded. As they have in many other progressively led communities over the past several years.

All of this stuff is NOT spontaneous.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Trump needs to SERIOUSLY start using the bully pulpit. No more press conferences with hostile reporters asking loaded questions so they can twist his words.

Prime time speeches, Trump and a camera. Never leak the content until he reads it. If the MSM decides to stop broadcasting them, put them on youtube. Get the message out clean without being interrupted and harrased with every word you speak.

I'd like to see the "Fireside Chat" format resurrected.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
"Law enforcement" didn't fail. They were directed to stand down.

Doesn't matter. We as a society entrust law enforcement with the responsibility to maintain order and protect the people. They didn't in this case, therefore they failed, and failed miserably.

As to the reason for that failure by law enforcement, I would probably agree that city administration (i.e. Mayor and others) acted in both an irresponsible and unlawful manner. Unfortunately, in cities like this, the inmates run the asylum, so nothing is likely to stick to them.

But make no mistake, law enforcement failed the residents of Charlottesville, which is specifically why this circle jerk occurred in the first place.

Just to be clear, when I used the term "Law Enforcement" I meant it to include everyone in the Chain of Command, all the way up to and including the Mayor (I doubt the Governor got involved). I use the same philosophy about the "Military"--when appropriate it goes all the way up to the CiC, the President.

flashguy

Is this what a racist looks like?

!תּוֹדָה רַבָּה

Todah Rabah!

Wish he would go on TV and say my grandkids are Jewish. You think I'd support a group that hates my daughter and grandkids? Are you people out of your minds?

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
Wish he would go on TV and say my grandkids are Jewish. You think I'd support a group that hates my daughter and grandkids? Are you people out of your minds?

We already know the answer to that--yes, they are!

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
The 60s got nothing on what's coming.

Keep your powder dry.

Agreed. It doesn't look good.

Never a wrong time to remind...

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/5430019073

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
August 16, 2017

Are far left and far right equivalent?

http://www.americanthinker.com...ight_equivalent.html

The question and analysis gets very abstract and quite concrete very quickly.

The left believes that abhorrent speech is not protected by the Constitution. So, any means to attack it is seen as legitimate - even virtuous.

The right sees the fundamental right to free speech as sacrosanct. So, advocating the most obnoxious things is seen as an inherent right that marks what it is to be free.

Past the left and past the right are people who show up with clubs, helmets, chains, industrial sized pepper spray and shields spoiling for a physical fight. Are these the far left and far right to which the writer refers?

There is so much that is blended and mixed in the conversation right now that it is hard to sort it out. What average person goes to a rally or counter rally in the presence of so many weaponized people itching for a fight? What someone merely says may be noxious but once the clubs start flying, someone is subject to arrest.

I've never said to my wife of 40 years, "Hey. I've got a great idea for date night. Grab your shield, mace, helmet and bicycle lock, you'll love it." . . . OK maybe just that one time.

If someone knew that they were walking into an armed and roiling environment, would they be a good person just trying to rally or would they really be a possible rioter adding fuel to the fire?

It seems to me that those who come to a rally armed and wanting to brawl are morally equivalent. Lock them up for rioting or some such violation of public order.

I have a friend who used to tell all his employees going to NAMM that they must avoid getting "show dick" - the idea that societal rules and repercussions would not apply when they were away for a convention. A lot of the armed folks in Charlottesville struck me as sufferers.

Criminals are morally equivalent to me because no matter what they SAY, the line is drawn at physical violence. The Constitution protects free speech with, not free assault on, one another.

Government is supposed to be agnostic about the content of speech but fervent about public safety. Giving up the right to assault one another is part of the basic social compact in countries governed by laws.

So, how do all these weapons pass regulation by law enforcement and cities in permits for physically dangerous rallies and counter rallies? Normally police separate protesters in an orderly manner. It works at national political conventions so why not employ a similar strategy to protect public order locally?

The reports were that fights started before the police ever got there. Some may have armed themselves for defense but many of the pictures showed some fairly aggressive actions on both sides. The fact that some potentially schizophrenic/troubled young man rammed a car into protesters does not tell us which group is more virtuous than the others. It merely tells us that a possibly unbalanced criminal committed a terrible crime. Maybe more will be found as investigations unfold.

But, with such a mixture of people it seems hard to slap a broad group label on everyone present. Alt Right. Alt Left. We don't even agree on what those labels mean. Why buy into using those labels anyway?

Antifa seems to be an identifiable group that seeks public anarchy to thwart speech. That sounds morally abhorrent to me. The KKK and White Supremacists are also morally abhorrent in seeking racial superiority. I guess I could see some equally bad moral equivalence between all those groups. Black Lives Matters seems to seek its own form of racial superiority. Is a group seeking to disrupt the fabric of ordered society worse than race haters? That's a tough call so I need to brush up on my Jeremy's Guide to Moral Equivalence before finishing all the math.

I suppose there is some moral equivalence between those on the far right and the far left. As they move farther to the extreme, their thoughts turn into action where they find themselves in the same circle on the Venn diagram: People who use physical violence to express their ideas. That deserves equivalence to me.

When someone asks about white nationalists it is a rhetorical trap because there is no settled definition of what that means. Even so, it does lend itself to being slur-shortened to belief in a white nation. You know, racism. President Trump can sure get caught up in foot faults as he defines his terms differently.

I hope he gets to talking about Americans again. Group identification is the Democrats' game.

"I suppose there is some moral equivalence between those on the far right and the far left."

Full stop.

The far right is not involved in this discussion.

Any nazi or religious people seeking to control the populous with theology is NOT right wing. How the hell can libertarians and national-socialists both occupy the "right" wing.

Holy shit people need to get control of the language. If you let them call socialists right and communists left, everyone loses. The goal should be liquidation of power from D.C. back to the states and ultimately back to the citizenry.

That can't happen if BOTH right and left represent a scenario where more power is concentrated in Washington. It seems like such a small verbiage change, but the entire conversation is being steered by a rudder that will only point to collectivism.

I'm not saying its correct, but pretty much everyone else in the world other than Conservatives in the US think that Nazis and White Supremacists here are on the Far Right, and this association is strengthened by the fact that a lot of them actually voted for Trump, and a lot of them call themselves Christians of some variety - both typically signs of conservatism.

I don't know what to do about it. I'm not even sure I entirely disagree.

But understand, pretty much no one but ourselves agree that they're Leftists, so us hammering that point over and over has no real audience but ourselves. No one else cares, and they see it as us denying it.

It's a pickle.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
I'm not saying its correct, but pretty much everyone else in the world other than Conservatives in the US think that Nazis and White Supremacists here are on the Far Right, and this association is strengthened by the fact that a lot of them actually voted for Trump, and a lot of them call themselves Christians of some variety - both typically signs of conservatism.

I don't know what to do about it. I'm not even sure I entirely disagree.

But understand, pretty much no one but ourselves agree that they're Leftists, so us hammering that point over and over has no real audience but ourselves. No one else cares, and they see it as us denying it.

It's a pickle.

It truly does not matter and not the point the president is making.

This would be an easier to understand way to put it:

Nazi = shitbag
KKK/White supremacist = shitbag
Antifa = shitbag
BLM = shitbag

If you are a member of any one of these groups you are not part of the problem, you ARE the problem.

I claim no association with any of these groups and if they want to try to attach themselves to me they are going to get blasted. That's where most Americans who are not blinded by this absolutely criminal media narrative are at.