quote:

Originally posted by 94hokie:
Reviving this thread to solicit feedback from our members who have purchased from any of the vendors listed. I see where some no longer seem to have web sites, and others no longer have the referenced products available. Any good first hand knowledge of soft armor, whether it be II or IIIa? Thanks.

To address the re-pop of the thread.

I have not had any experience buying directly from a direct vendor of first hand products, nor of bullet-proof-me for 2nd hand products.

I like the idea of bullet-proof-me because they do provide A LOT of information.

I have, however, bought stuff from classifieds of other forums or ebay.

I got ripped off twice... once was zylon (the recalled material). The other was a person who took single sheets of Kevlar and glued them together. Both times I provided negative feedback directly (ebay) or indirectly (another forum/mgmt).

The zylon stuff we shot up at a sigforum shoot a long time ago. Interestinly, it still stopped the 9mm bullets... LOL. I threw away the "homemade" stuff and kept the carrier.

I have 2 real "vests" now, and a bunch of panels that I want to shoot up more.

The real ones are a EMS/Fire protective vest, which provides full coverage, and some ProTech IIIA panels that fit into a quilted carrier that really doesn't "print" like a vest, looks more like a winter ski vest (works well here in CO).

So, long story, but look around and try to find something that you can use and that is "real". The biggest thing to do is to make sure you wear it. Having any level of protection (IIA, II, IIIA, or even III+ plates) and leaving it at home defeats the purpose.

Just my 2 cents.

James

PS I actually have plates too, no real need for them given my personal life, but cool none-the-less.

quote:

Originally posted by IHooah:
Lastly if you are in a situation where you feel armor is necessary i would also carry some type of tourniquet. If you are wearing armor it means in some way there is an expectation that you may get shot. The tq can provide first aid for the rest of your non armored body.

Absolutely. Practice with it. Carry two.

Bumping this great thread with a few questions.

I have been looking at this Level IV ceramic package from SKD. Seems like a great value and I really like the FirstSpear carrier design that allows you to put the vest on quickly.

https://www.skdtac.com/FirstSp...ackage-p/fsr.910.htm

However SKD is requiring a notarized affidavit in order to sell this to you (I have no problem supplying my ID, but requiring a notary is a big pain in the ass), and they have not responded to my simple questions regarding sizing and ordering process. They don't have a phone number so email is your only choice. I've had good service from them in the past so this is disappointing.

Any other good Level IV ceramic packages to look at?

It appears that HighCom no longer sells directly to the customer and I haven't found a good online vendor yet. These RMA plates seem to be a good value, any feedback on these?

https://rmadefense.com/product...late-model-1155-set/

Hesco 4400 is a recommended lower priced, rated plate. I have a set, have yet to be shot in it. If I were to do it again I would get a AWS plate carrier, can’t beat that price.

Brett B,

I'd re-assess whether you really need/want level IV? Level III+ protects against 5.56, 7.62, and 30-06 multi-hit rifle rounds. What level IV gets you is AP protection in 7.62 and 30-06. III+ protects against the common 5.56 AP variants, M855 etc.

I Like Spartan Armor https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/ you could just get the skdtac carrier if you really like it and a couple plates from a vendor that doesn't require the notarized form.

Thanks guys, those options are just what I was looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by wildheartedson0105:

Absolutely. Practice with it. Carry two.

Two at a minimum.

It was suggested in the Tactical Emergency Casualty Care (TECC) course I took last year that you carry at least two for use on you, plus two more to use on others.

This is plus the IFAK that has two Israeli bandages, two occlusive seals for chest wounds, some kind of hemodynamic agent like quikclot impregnated gauze, some large gauze pads and duct tape or crinkle wrap, or if you're not reluctance to carry them women's sanitary napkins (they are designed to soak up blood).

Questions of coatings and trauma pads:

How much sense (really) does upgrading anti-spalling coatings make? I've seen quite a price jump between .3" and .5" for example.

Or does coating really do much at all in the first place?

I understand the stated purpose of having trauma pads behind the plates, but when we are talking about a 7ish pound plate getting hit by a 150ish grain slug? Even at 2800 fps, how much of it are you going to feel behind the carrier material and whatever else you are wearing?

If you are buying steel plates, get the spall coating. The more durable the coating the better as it will keep the bullet from splashing into your neck and other soft areas. As for trauma pads, they will make the difference between getting the wind knocked out of you and broken ribs.

As for manufacturers, I went with Hoplite Armor level IV plates. They are rebranded LTC plates. In addition, Lyman (the owner) was awesome to deal with.

TD

For anybody curious, here's what I ended up getting:

Mayflower APC Gen 2
Chase Tactical 4SAS7 Level IV Shooters Cut 10”x12” Multi-curve plates
FirstSpear padded plate backers
HSGI Taco rifle pouches

Here it is all assembled:


The APC is a lightweight low profile carrier that holds the plates up high to position them correctly. Mine is a size S/M APC with medium cummerbund. The S/M APC fits 10”x12” or SAPI medium plates and holds them secure. SAPI Medium should fit perfectly with no gaps, the 10x12 plates are a bit shorter so have about a 1.5” space near the bottom of the carrier. While not necessary, I put a strip of foam there (leftover from a Pelican case cutout) to help the carrier hold shape and it works perfectly.



The Gen 2 has improved shoulder pads and the inside uses a mesh for breathability. It has a kangaroo pocket that can fit 3 mags but if you have thicker plates it will be tight, so the external mag pouches will work better.



Overall the setup is very comfortable and allows great range of motion. No issue with shouldering a rifle, the low-profile front shoulder straps without any buckles really help with this. I had read the “Tubes” on the First Spear carrier shoulder straps interfered with buttstocks and for me this probably would have been the case.

US Elite Gear had the most options in stock and shipped quickly.
https://www.us-elitegear.com/p...?variant=35053074830

Chase Tactical was great to work with on the plates. They responded to my questions quickly and offered a significant discount when asked about sales. I learned that these are just rebranded HighComm plates which are well known to be very high quality with lots of videos showing ballistic tests.

The 4SAS7 plates are 0.75” thick Level IV ceramics that are NIJ 04/05 certified.
The 4S17M plates are 0.95” thick Level IV ceramics that are NIJ 06 certified.

Ballistically they perform the same, but the 4S17M have an extra layer of foam on the front to improve durability to rough handling or being dropping from greater heights. Since the 4SAS7 plates are already very durable, and I won’t be jumping out of any helicopters, I went with the thinner of the 2 options. Multi-curve is worth every penny as they fit the body contour very well front and back. They are comfortable enough to wear without any padding but I added some anyway.

https://www.chasetactical.com/...mpliant-multi-curve/

If you get a low profile carrier without any padding consider these First Spear padded plate backers. They are thin enough to fit even with thick plates and for only $26 make a big improvement on comfort by eliminating pressure points.

https://www.first-spear.com/10...backer-non-ballistic

This has turned out to be a great setup. Since I'm bigger than average size I could have probably gone with the larger APC and bigger plates, but the 10x12 plates do cover my vitals and I wanted to keep this as low profile as possible to maintain mobility. Still need to add an IFAK of some sort, just haven't gotten that far yet.

^^^^^
GREAT info and review...thanks! What is your height/weight?

My wife bought me an LBT-6094B. B is for large size. It fits well and is comfortable so far wearing it around the house doing chores. I have just two RX + weight vest plates and 3 empty mags in it. 15ish lbs. It will fit medium or large ESAPI plates I believe.

I’m 5’8” and got the large based on some measurements and the Interceptor OTV the Army issued. I’m about a 43” chest. This rides high enough to not interfere with movements like bending and squatting.

The cummerbund is great, a little slow to get on maybe but really holds things in place. The mags in the option kangaroo insert are still pretty low profile.

Photos to follow.

The argument for Level IV is M193 out of longer barrels, not just 7.62x51 AP and 30.06 AP.

There are YouTube videos showing M193 going through Level III+ plates.

M855 is stopped by pretty much every III+ armor I've seen tested.

Manufacturer is often key. NIJ certification is a must. Declaring "III+ protects against the common 5.56 AP variants, M855 etc." is not entirely accurate. M193 is a 'common variant' and can defeat III+ depending upon armor source, barrel length and distance.

Anyone thinking of wearing body armor should pay close attention to the laws and the how the courts are addressing its use. This quote is from a 2019 Florida case:

quote:

No Florida court has yet to address the degree of suspicion attached to the wearing of a bulletproof vest. However, the court in People v. Carvey, 89 N.Y.2d 707, 680 N.E.2d 150, 153, 657 N.Y.S.2d 879 (N.Y. 1997), noted—HN6 "[t]he act of wearing a bulletproof vest . . . suggests more than the presence of a deadly weapon—it demonstrates [*454] its owner's readiness and willingness to use a deadly weapon."

Unlike bullets, a bulletproof vest has a practical use by itself as a measure of protection. . . . Like bullets, however, the wearing of a bulletproof vest is more immediately associated with the presence and use of a firearm than an empty holster or practice target. . . . [A] bulletproof vest is designed to prevent the penetration of bullets, and there is an inherent linkage between a vest and possession of a firearm. . . . Indeed, [t]he whole purpose of the wearing of the vest is to make it more feasible to go armed, [and] to enhance the advantage of doing so. .

This could create an issue for you criminally and civilly should you use your weapon in a "questionable" situation, that is, you wearing a vest could be used against you in a court of law and (in Florida) it is illegal to wear body armor during the commission of a crime. This is not legal advise, just something to consider.

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
Anyone thinking of wearing body armor should pay close attention to the laws and the how the courts are addressing its use. This quote is from a 2019 Florida case:

quote:

No Florida court has yet to address the degree of suspicion attached to the wearing of a bulletproof vest. However, the court in People v. Carvey, 89 N.Y.2d 707, 680 N.E.2d 150, 153, 657 N.Y.S.2d 879 (N.Y. 1997), noted—HN6 "[t]he act of wearing a bulletproof vest . . . suggests more than the presence of a deadly weapon—it demonstrates [*454] its owner's readiness and willingness to use a deadly weapon."

Unlike bullets, a bulletproof vest has a practical use by itself as a measure of protection. . . . Like bullets, however, the wearing of a bulletproof vest is more immediately associated with the presence and use of a firearm than an empty holster or practice target. . . . [A] bulletproof vest is designed to prevent the penetration of bullets, and there is an inherent linkage between a vest and possession of a firearm. . . . Indeed, [t]he whole purpose of the wearing of the vest is to make it more feasible to go armed, [and] to enhance the advantage of doing so. .

This could create an issue for you criminally and civilly should you use your weapon in a "questionable" situation, that is, you wearing a vest could be used against you in a court of law and (in Florida) it is illegal to wear body armor during the commission of a crime. This is not legal advise, just something to consider.

NY has a similar statute.

Well, the court in "People v Carvey" were idiots. What stupid reasoning, a bulletproof vest indicates the presence of a firearm more than a holster? Only if you are wearing it afraid you will shoot yourself.

They sure do twist themselves in knots to try and ban more stuff they don't like...

Bumping this thread for advice on spall sleeves for steel plates. I did read the whole thread and the AR500 spall sleeves seem to be discontinued.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good spall sleeve for 10x12 AR500 steel plates?

Bruce

Anyone familiar with Safe Life Defense. They make a line of concealable IIIA and IIIA+ vests that look interesting.

Link

quote:

This could create an issue for you criminally and civilly should you use your weapon in a "questionable" situation, that is, you wearing a vest could be used against you in a court of law and (in Florida) it is illegal to wear body armor during the commission of a crime. This is not legal advise, just something to consider.

Just curious how a 1989 case in NY would affect someone in Florida in 2020, since as far as I can find, there isn't a law against body armor being worn in a non criminal situation.

Nothing you do is safe from an overzealous prosecutor with eyes on a State Senate or State Prosecutors job.

Guess it would be better to be alive and under suspicion than dead and hiding from potential legal action in the event you get shot... or shot at...

Brett B thanks for the info! I just grabbed those Level IV plates for $193 shipped! Super excited to have ceramic vs. the steel I was going with. Picking up an AR500 Veritas carrier to go with.