quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

...
The actions of the Soviet Union and then the Russian Federation for the past 100 plus years have been largely driven by two factors: imperialism and paranoia. The desire for expansion and influence is hardly unique to any one country, but I’m not aware of any major power in modern times that has so consistently demonstrated its fear that it’s being continually targeted for destruction by external—and internal—forces.
...

Over the years I've come across comments by various diplomats and intelligence officers with expertise in dealing with the Soviets/ Russians that talked about their paranoia. So much so, that I assumed it was generally recognized and accepted...at least by the West.

I have a couple thoughts of my own but I'm curious; do you have any thoughts or insights as to the reasons for Soviet/ Russian institutionalized paranoia?

First of all, Putin is not Hitler and he's not Stalin. But regardless, yes, in 1939 or 1940, it would still be extremely irresponsible and careless for an official high in our government with a lot of power to say what Chickenhawk Lindsey said on a public broadcast for all to hear.[/QUOTE]


So "Peace in our time" was better?

Maybe in a diplomatic situation when dealing with a diplomat. Or maybe not, as it turned out.
Not when dealing with a psychopath with nukes.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

He was not obscure...


Sure he was.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Well I was there along with Brian Williams.

ust maybe RUssia isn't the bad guy here - after all, one specific American political party has had nothing good to say about them for the last 6 years, blaming them for everything wrong - and even their political opposition's collusion with them. Yet the opposite is true - it was a fradulent narrative with no basis in fact and the investigation of it is coming out with indictments.

Russia Russia Russia all over the media again. Apparently the vast majority are once again taking it hook line and sinker. When do we finally learn our lesson?
^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah the Berlin wall was necessary. Joe Stalin was a great guy. Gulags do not exist. Give me a break.

In the latest crushing blow to Russia...



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...mpetitions-rcna18595

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Assuming Russia has a paranoia issue might be simply misdirecting how Ukraine has been used as leverage against them by other powers. For all reports and purposes, Putin isn't attacking the Ukraine peoples as much as their corrupt government. They got involved with Obama accepting bio lab funding as far back as 2005, and it's been steadily down hill ever since.

NATO has NO justificatoin for inviting Ukraine into the organization specifically because the charter disallows it - yet, here we are. Turkey is in NATO - how is a country located in the Middle East and which has shores on the shared Black Sea in an organization limited to the NORTH ATLANTIC?

NATO has been an instigator for years.

Just maybe RUssia isn't the bad guy here - after all, one specific American political party has had nothing good to say about them for the last 6 years, blaming them for everything wrong - and even their political opposition's collusion with them. Yet the opposite is true - it was a fradulent narrative with no basis in fact and the investigation of it is coming out with indictments.

Russia Russia Russia all over the media again. Apparently the vast majority are once again taking it hook line and sinker. When do we finally learn our lesson?

Invading a sovereign nation with a functioning (but corrupt) government that is no actual threat and has taken no hostile actions is unjustified no matter who does it. Pre-emptive invasion because they MIGHT join NATO, and MIGHT have NATO weapons in the future? Seriously?

Sovereign nations that don't want to be invaded by Russia and want to be part of a mutual defense pact have every reason to join NATO. That the U.S. might "sweeten the pot" to get them to join is not "instigation". It is a strategic advantage to have more allies on your side. Europe was at a near constant state of war for hundreds of years, but now England, France, Germany, Spain, and many others all get along well enough not to fight with each other - thanks to NATO and then the EU.

Sure Putin might want revenge on having his stooge ousted, sure he might want to expose the corruption and get hard evidence implicating Biden and the other Democrats and have them ejected from office and/or put in jail. If there's one good thing to come of all this, that would be it.

He is not paranoid in a clinical sense. It is just that people have a difficult time understanding how other people think. Obama thought apologizing to the world would improve the world image of the US. Sure they liked him and sang his praises because he showed weakness and they took advantage of it. China loved Obama - they sold ObaMao T-shirts all over the place when he was President - Obama in the Mao uniform and hat. Why? Because he was a closeted commie and wasn't going to do anything to stand up to China. Obama simply couldn't understand that this approach would not actually accomplish anything of value.

Americans believe in religious plurality and tolerance, and many cannot understand that Islamics do not. They defend all of the rights of Islamics, but fail to understand that the Islamics would never do the same in return. Americans defend the right of free speech for extremists that shout down and cancel conservatives. Our system of rights requires that all participants respect those rights. We uphold our side of the bargain, while they do not, because we can't understand how they can be so illogical as to demand their rights but deny everyone else's. We think using facts and data and logic to explain to people why much of what they assert is not based in fact, expecting that facts actually matter to them or will change them one bit.

We cannot understand why Russia acts as it does because we don't intend to invade Russia or start a nuclear war with them. The U.S. largely gave up conquest of land after the 1800's. But then the U.S. has never really been invaded since the war of 1812. Russia was invaded by Napolean and by Germany and suffered massive losses. Those memories don't die hard. Russia is imperialist and perfectly willing to use its military for land conquest. Putin simply cannot understand how the west does not think the same way. He views the expansion of NATO as the western form of land conquest - more for us and less for him. Except we do it with peace instead of war. Different methods, same effect, NATO countries are on our side (mostly) and not on his side.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Just maybe [Russia] isn't the bad guy here ...

Yeah, because Nazis and corruption and biolabs and NATO and Hunter Biden and anti-Trump conspirators and... Other Bad Stuff justifies invading a neighboring country, destroying parts of it, and killing innocent civilians.

The West certainly isn't blameless in this tragedy, but make no mistake: It's Putin that's pulling the trigger. And he ain't doin' it for anybody's benefit but his own.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Yeah, because Nazis and corruption and biolabs and NATO and Hunter Biden and anti-Trump conspirators and... Other Bad Stuff

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
So Putin "nuked" the Ukraine without nuking the Ukraine.....good thing the wind blows east---he did the Russians in too...........

Two thoughts: Poland's right next door, AND the wind there may blow to the east, but the planet spins from east to west - which is how fallout from Chernobyl was found to the west of Ukraine.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Putin isn't attacking the Ukraine peoples as much as their corrupt government.

Which is why the Russians are shelling and dropping missiles on purely civilian areas. If that's directed at the Ukrainian government, the Russians have ignored several bombing campaigns in Europe during WWII and their effects.

quote:

NATO has been an instigator for years...Too many Americans are still locked in a 1980's mindset over international events

And those assertions are based on what, exactly? Standing by the Minsk Accords? Honestly, do you have any facts at all to back those statements up?

Man, it's amazing how many Russian apologists suddenly popped up everywhere, isn't it? It's almost like magic or something.

I've seen people imply that US/NATO are instigators because of South Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

South Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf War I were in defense of a sovereign nation that was invaded by another. The invaders were the instigators.

Afghanistan was retaliation for 9/11 to depose the Taliban and get Bin Laden. That it turned into a 20 year clusterfuck of rainbow flag waving nation builders was a mistake yes. And Biden made it worse in every way imaginable.

Iraq is a mixed bag. Hussein refused to comply with UN WMD inspectors and played cat and mouse with them for years. For a guy with no WMD's he certainly acted like he was hiding something and was not following the terms of his surrender in Gulf War I.

Basically, he fucked around and found out.

But that doesn't excuse the failures of intelligence that claimed he really had WMD's. In hindsight, leaving him in power and sanctioning him may have been better and prevented the expansion of more Islamic extremists. For all his bullshit at least he hated Iran and was willing to fight them (with the weapons we gave him), and was not an Islamic extremist, just a ruthless dictator in the Stalin vein.

I read somewhere that Ukraine has to hold out for only 10 days with the idea that somehow they win. it's day 8 with only 2 days to go but I don't see the Russian military packing up and going home anytime soon after day 10.

^^Someone asserted that as a way of saying that Putin had to win in ten days or he'd completely lose support in the Kremlin. That may or may not be accurate in principle, but there are also reports that Russian troops are being brought west to join the invasion and that they'll reach Ukraine in about a week.

Everybody's gambling here and no one's sure where the roulette wheel's gonna stop.

Iraq was full of chemical warheads used for ChemIEDs causing ~400 chemEOD casualties/injured on the US side. This was in the information stolen from DOD and given to wikileaks by Private “Chelsea“ Manning

These are generally considered WMDs by most nations as they are non-selective weapons

President Dubya Bush didn’t want Americans finding out that they fell into the hands of Al Qaeda

President O’bummer did not want the reality of “WMDs” coming into the collective knowledge of US citizens.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Iraq was full of chemical warheads

Which Iraq had extensively utilized against Iran in the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Iraq was full of chemical warheads

Which Iraq had extensively utilized against Iran in the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s.

Saddam Hussein also used them against his own citizens.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I read somewhere that Ukraine has to hold out for only 10 days with the idea that somehow they win. it's day 8 with only 2 days to go but I don't see the Russian military packing up and going home anytime soon after day 10.

Yeah... I don't see them leaving either. Putin won't allow it. They have been raiding local homes near the convoy for food. They are low on fuel. Some of the trucks have blown tires. But Putin isn't going to let them go home. Putin's army may be suffering more losses than predicted, but Putin himself only loses if he loses. Because Putin cannot afford to lose. Dictators are not voted out of office; they are deposed, often in a hail of bullets.

Interesting article on a number of subjects, but this may identify the origin of the "10 days" thing -

http://breakingdefense.com/202...ine-is-pozor-rossii/

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Interesting article on a number of subjects, but this may identify the origin of the "10 days" thing -

http://breakingdefense.com/202...ine-is-pozor-rossii/

That's a good read, but for those who want the Reader's Digest version, here's the gist of it. Basically, Russia can't supply their troops with food, fuel, and weaponry for more than 10ish days. (However, note that these assessments are primarily coming from Ukrainian sources, so there very well may be a bias there for propaganda purposes...)

If combat operations last more than ten days, the Ukrainians believe, the Russian side may have no choice other than to negotiate – as there will not be adequate resources left to commit to the field. According to one estimate, the war is costing Putin up to US $20 billion per day, which is an unsustainable trajectory.
...
For months these formations were allegedly building up a robust logistics chain, including blood packs and other medical supplies. Despite these preparations, on the third day of the war Russian units were already running out of rations. One “Five Eyes” nation former intelligence officer on temporary duty in Kyiv informed Breaking Defense “Russian troops have been foraging, looting, and trading with civilians for food. If they are already running short of rations [on day three] then their logistics must be struggling immensely – and must have been so even all of these months in these staging areas." Ukrainian Armed Forces (ZSU) sources state that multiple Russian units were already out of petrol by the third day of the war and were running low on ammunition as well.
...
Today “Russia has no more Kalibr missiles left in strategic reserve,” said a Ukrainian defense enterprise director familiar with the program, “but that is not the end of their troubles. The guidance system, the seeker head and other critical modules [in the missile’s front end] contain about 60% imported electronic components. None of these will be available after the long list of sanctions being imposed on Russia now, so it is hard to see where any new missiles would ever come from.”
...
The Kalibr is not the only program in trouble. One Ukrainian intelligence officer tells Breaking Defense that there are “numerous shortages of [Russian] weapon systems. The famous KBM plant in Tula and other factories controlled by longtime Putin allies the Rothenberg brothers are unable to physically fulfil orders for infantry weapons and ammunition. “Weapons that are officially on the books and should be available for delivery to active-duty units are missing and the next production runs will be complete only in three to four months,” the officer said. Even that estimate assumes that the raw material inputs have not been pilfered as well and are still available — if not, the time frame could be considerably longer.

In other news: This just came to my attention:

quote:

Cogent moves to cut Russia from the Internet – report

One of the world's biggest Internet connectivity suppliers took steps to essentially sever Russia from the world's Internet backbone.

The dramatic development highlights an ongoing move by a large and growing number of Western companies to implement never-before-used sanctions against Russia for its ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Full article: ogent moves to cut Russia from the Internet – report

Personally, I think that's counter-productive.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
In other news: This just came to my attention:

quote:

Cogent moves to cut Russia from the Internet – report

One of the world's biggest Internet connectivity suppliers took steps to essentially sever Russia from the world's Internet backbone.

The dramatic development highlights an ongoing move by a large and growing number of Western companies to implement never-before-used sanctions against Russia for its ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Full article: ogent moves to cut Russia from the Internet – report

Personally, I think that's counter-productive.

So here's my question as a layman: Wouldn't cutting them off from the public internet also limit Russia's enemies' ability to hack, steal info, run misinformation campaigns, etc in the country. Seems like a double edged sword to me.