These are the same government people who couldn't stop the ever expanding Islamic Caliphate under obama.

They've just created another way to enrich their friends and families via another never ending war.

A little more levity

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Added: Not to dispute any of the additional observations by Lefty Sig, but I would dispute the somewhat common belief/leftist doctrine that the post-WWII arms race and its escalation of tensions and what would have been the consequences of a WWIII were the fault of the US and the rest of the West. To allude to something I mentioned earlier, it’s somewhat of a playground excuse, but in fact the Soviets did start it with their aggressions after WWII. They were not deterred by the “Don’t start any …” adage and once they started the race the results were not unsurprising, just as the outcomes of the races started by Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not unsurprising—if not necessarily preordained.

Thanks. I'm not suggesting it is our fault. Russia's taking of eastern Europe after WWII and creation of the iron curtain established a buffer zone so that Russia proper could never be invaded again. Russia lost around 27M people in WWII, so you can see the reason for their "never again" posture post war. And FDR deliberately stayed out of the war and let Russia bear the brunt until the Germans were weak enough for us to invade France. "Yeah Joe, it's Frank, we're coming soon, just hang in there a little longer" for 2.5 years. We sat out because we could, since Germany was no threat to the U.S. mainland. Pretty sure that left a really bad taste for Russia. And FDR was a quasi-socialist and probably a Russian sympathizer, at least in theory, while Truman was fiercely anti-communist.

Sure we think they went too far, but they think they were perfectly justified. The U.S. mainland was untouched by the war, yet we almost went to war over nukes in Cuba. NATO has nukes in countries close to Russia and they just have have to live with it. That's what I meant by perspective. We said ours were purely defensive, but accused Russia of having offensive capability in Cuba. And we had tried to invade Cuba a year and a half earlier so you can't really say Cuba wasn't taking a defensive position. We don't want nukes in our backyard - who would? And we were able to get them removed with the threat of force. It worked, but it might have gone very bad and caused a war. I know some old guys I worked with in the 90's told of the aircraft lining the interstates outside of Wright Patterson air base in '62. Not sure how true that was, but the interstates were designed to double as runways if needed.

The advent of nuclear subs with ballistic missiles pretty much made proximity of land based missiles and bomber air bases irrelevant. I have no doubt both countries have subs in international waters as close as possible to the other side at all times.

It is interesting how allies (or, strange bedfellows) during a war can become mortal enemies after the war, each taking half of the country that started the war. We can point at each other forever and say "you started it" and "no, YOU started it", and accuse each other of intending to make the first strike. It doesn't really get us anywhere. Had we done nothing and gone back to our pre-war pacifism, perhaps the Russians WOULD have eventually attacked western Europe. Hard to say really, and speculating about might-have-beens is an academic pursuit.

Having spent a fair amount of time in China 2011-2019, hearing how they think might surprise you. A VP at a company we do a lot of business told me once "China needs to learn how to wage war from the U.S". I asked why. He said "What war have we ever won?" He had a point. China has been controlled by external forces for much of its modern history, as well as centuries ago. Their position is also "Never again will China be invaded and occupied". China lost 15M-20M people in WWII, second only to the Soviet Union. It is my perception that Mao incentivized expanding the Chinese population because Russia prevailed over Germany due to sheer force of numbers. Russia had more men to throw at the Germans than the Germans had bullets. More Chinese means more people to put in the way of an invader, no matter how poorly armed or equipped.

^^^^
Thanks for adding that perspective. More for me to chew on.

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
These are the same government people who couldn't stop the ever expanding Islamic Caliphate under obama.

They've just created another way to enrich their friends and families via another never ending war.

Obama didn't want to stop the expanding Caliphate. Everything he did - helping overthrow Egypt and Libya and NOT helping Iranians overthrow their insane government (Iranian people are fine, gov't is wacked) all played into Islamic extremist's hands. And he didn't let the military do what was needed. Trump did, and Isis was decimated quickly.

I'm thinking Biden and his ilk are OK if Russia takes over Ukraine and kills Zelensky and his government so that there is no one to testify against him over the corruption they have benefitted from.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

Since we are depending on Russia to negotiate with Iran, I am sure that will go well. As far as importing Russian oil, my understanding is that the oil is prepaid. Stopping it only hurts us.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
Since we are depending on Russia to negotiate with Iran, I am sure that will go well. As far as importing Russian oil, my understanding is that the oil is prepaid. Stopping it only hurts us.

Regardless, Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism and most Americans cannot do business with them by government order. We should not be doing anything with them. Yet Obama and Biden seem intent on letting Iran develop nuclear weapons. And I'm pretty sure the first nuclear weapon developed by Iran will be given to terrorists and detonated in Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
Since we are depending on Russia to negotiate with Iran, I am sure that will go well. As far as importing Russian oil, my understanding is that the oil is prepaid. Stopping it only hurts us.

Regardless, Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism and most Americans cannot do business with them by government order. We should not be doing anything with them. Yet Obama and Biden seem intent on letting Iran develop nuclear weapons. And I'm pretty sure the first nuclear weapon developed by Iran will be given to terrorists and detonated in Israel.

Agreed. And Israel will not hesitate to retaliate 10 fold. Any Iranian military facility would be in danger of obliteration and possibly even cities like Tehran should Iran target civilians. It’s also possible that any Iranian nuke will be targeted before it ever gets completely assembled- the Israelis are masters of espionage and after all the preemptive actions over the years where imports TS facilities have been leveled, I have no doubt that Iran is riddled with spies.

latest documented equipment losses:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/...nting-equipment.html

regarding deaths : Russia is approaching after a WEEK the total combat deaths the US suffered on Iraq and AFG in 15+ YEARS.

(depending on the source)


-----------------------------------

FWIW, "RT News" app has disappeared from my Roku.

I don't watch it, but I was surprised to see the app is just gone. I didn't delete it.

Oh, RT was Russian Television News.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
FWIW, "RT News" app has disappeared from my Roku.

RT's web site was inaccessible... yesterday? It's accessible again today, though.

I have to say I think TUCKER was spot on in his analysis tonight. $$$

I have to say that I'm tiring of Tucker. He's getting a bit too much like Ron Paul in his peacenik isolationism and seemingly fails to see the bigger picture.

Most things I agree with him on, but not this.

That and the incessant Mike Lindell commercials have about done me in.

DVR

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
latest documented equipment losses:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/...nting-equipment.html

regarding deaths : Russia is approaching after a WEEK the total combat deaths the US suffered on Iraq and AFG in 15+ YEARS.

(depending on the source)


-----------------------------------

It seems like they are using their WW2 strategy.
Just keep sending soldiers wave after wave.
They are nowhere as well equipped as they have been telling the world they are. Doesn’t seem like their equipment works as promised either.

For me, it is very sad to see that decision of couple people will alter lives of millions of people for a long time after the gunfire stops and the smoke clears.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I have to say that I'm tiring of Tucker. He's getting a bit too much like Ron Paul in his peacenik isolationism and seemingly fails to see the bigger picture.

Most things I agree with him on, but not this.

That and the incessant Mike Lindell commercials have about done me in.

Please explain to me why the “bigger picture” is that we should start a hot war with Russia in Ukraine and I should send my kids to die? And before you type your answer, consider that the information you know about the Russian invasion is coming from the same people who have lied to you about Covid.

quote:

Originally posted by scsigs:

It seems like they are using their WW2 strategy.
Just keep sending soldiers wave after wave.
They are nowhere as well equipped as they have been telling the world they are. Doesn’t seem like their equipment works as promised either.

You're being played if you believe any of the reports regarding any aspect of this war. Any of it.

I estimate the Russian deaths thus far to be somewhere between 25 and 25,000. That holds about the same level of credibility as what the media is trying to feed us.

No more Big Macski, Cokeski, Pepski, or ridiculously over priced coffski for the Ruski's!

https://www.washingtonpost.com...709b6cddc_story.html

McDonald's, Starbucks, Coke, Pepsi join exodus out of Russia

DETROIT — McDonald’s, Starbucks, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo and General Electric __ ubiquitous global brands and symbols of U.S. corporate might __ all announced Tuesday they were temporarily suspending their business in Russia in response to the country’s invasion of Ukraine.

“Our values mean we cannot ignore the needless human suffering unfolding in Ukraine,” McDonald’s President and CEO Chris Kempczinski said in an open letter to employees.

The Chicago-based burger giant said it will temporarily close 850 stores but continue paying its 62,000 employees in Russia “who have poured their heart and soul into our McDonald’s brand.”

Kempczinski said it’s impossible to know when the company will be able to reopen its stores.

“The situation is extraordinarily challenging for a global brand like ours, and there are many considerations,” Kempczinski wrote in the letter. McDonald’s works with hundreds of Russian suppliers, for example, and serves millions of customers each day.