quote:

Have any of the crew been officially identified?

"The Army has also identified two of the soldiers aboard the Black Hawk helicopter as Staff Sgt. Ryan Austin O’Hara, 28, of Lilburn, Georgia and Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Loyd Eaves, 39, of Great Mills, Maryland. The name of the third is being withheld at the request of the family, the Army said."

I wonder why? It's going to come out eventually. I'm sure lots of folks at Davison Army Airfield know and have probably been ordered to keep their mouths shut.

Link

How about they identify the controller and the supervisor, too?

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
[QUOTE]I wonder why? It's going to come out eventually. I'm sure lots of folks at Davison Army Airfield know and have probably been ordered to keep their mouths shut.

Link

How about they identify the controller and the supervisor, too?

I’m guessing because she was in control of the aircraft and the tragedy may be her fault.

Interesting narrative from CaptainSteeeve. Looking at the graphics on page 1 of this thread, he doesn't discuss or mention the change in altitude to 300' and the right-ish turn in the last few seconds before impact. Why did they depart from their assigned route?

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:
I’m guessing because she was in control of the aircraft and the tragedy may be her fault.

Maybe.

Though I’d guess that even if that’s true, that if it was a training flight (and perhaps regardless) the aircraft commander is responsible. In the airlines, if the First Officer is the PF (pilot flying, guy handling the controls) and he screws up, the Captain is still responsible (ultimate authority for the safe outcome…) Ditto for the Flight Instructor with a student. If you are the senior pilot in charge, you are responsible.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter much. Blaming someone, anyone, will not bring those 67 souls back. A more productive approach would be to examine all the contributing factors and develop strategies, policies, and procedures to prevent this happening again.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
Interesting narrative from CaptainSteeeve. Looking at the graphics on page 1 of this thread, he doesn't discuss or mention the change in altitude to 300' and the right-ish turn in the last few seconds before impact. Why did they depart from their assigned route?

The last jog in their course was about 10 seconds before the crash. I forget how fast they were going 20 and 30 seconds beforehand, but they were 300'+. Not a pilot, but done enough stupid things in other vehicles to suspect they had an "OH, FUUUUUCK!" moment somewhere in the last 20-10 seconds. I think that's what the last jog and decline in altitude represent.

I mentioned target fixation in my first post on page 1. In that moment, the tendency is to steer where you are looking, which is why so much emphasis is placed on look where you want to go. Maybe it's different with airplanes.

Edited to add:

CNN posted some new, much clearer video that show the Blackhawk flying level right into the CRJ. It seems likely that the Blackhawk's last jog and sudden descent shown on the flight path based on MLAT data occurred after impact.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:
I’m guessing because she was in control of the aircraft and the tragedy may be her fault.

Maybe.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter much. Blaming someone, anyone, will not bring those 67 souls back. A more productive approach would be to examine all the contributing factors and develop strategies, policies, and procedures to prevent this happening again.

Well, it's true that blaming someone, anyone, will not bring those 67 souls back.

However, it's an entirely different set of circumstances if it was an intentional act by that pilot rather than an accident. At this point, we just don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
However, it's an entirely different set of circumstances if it was an intentional act by that pilot rather than an accident. At this point, we just don't know.

I’m not sure how it would change anything if it was an intentional act and we did somehow find out. The military (ie the taxpayer) is on the hook for this one whether it was pilot error (and judging from the earlier flight path the pilot appears to have been struggling) or a deliberate action by the pilot.

Your employee was incompetent => you’re liable.

You employed someone insane (or a terrorist, but I guess that’s redundant) => you’re liable.

Unless a manifesto is found (and not buried by the Famous But Incompetent) or the is a cockpit voice recorder from the helo where the pilot flying is clear heard saying he or she is doing it on purpose I can’t see how we’ll ever know.

Yes, you liable either way.
What I’m talking about is preventing the next incident.

Do Blackhawks have black boxes?

Oops...I'll answer my own question from Popular Mechanics after a quick google search:

"Yes, UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters have separate "black boxes" located in the rear of the helicopter, away from the impact of a frontal collision. These black boxes are used for recording flight data and are part of the aircraft's safety system."

What the fuck is up with this trans terror intentional act BS from rage bait misinformation propaganda sites like zerohedge and the blaze?

It was 100% hubris by the chopper pilot.

ATC is absolutely harmless in this.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:


ATC is absolutely harmless in this.

That's horseshit. They most certainly share some of the blame in this. That will be cited officially in the end I have no doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

That's horseshit.

Oh no, we got a badass up in here. LOL

You KNOW you're right and all that.

^^ Until we know EVERYTHING that actually happened, we don't really know ANYTHING for certain, so until that time, it's ALL potentially horseshit!

As of now, it's been less than 48 hours, so at this point we don't know shit! Just sayin'...

Incompetence, malice, or negligence, it makes no difference. Those folks are dead and the taxpayers will be footing the bill. I am putting my bet on incompetence, always the safe choice when dealing with the US.gov.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

That's horseshit.

Oh no, we got a badass up in here. LOL

You KNOW you're right and all that.

I'm disagreeing with you. That's all.

And the dissonance in your two posts is incredible. I know I'M right? Come on, man...

quote:

It was 100% hubris by the chopper pilot.

ATC is absolutely harmless in this.

But mark this post. There will certainly be some fault laid at the feet of the ATC in this accident. The only ones that I can see who were completely not at fault were the AA crew.

It’s just another opinion, but there may be something to it:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.c...planation-ive-heard/

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The only ones that I can see who were completely not at fault were the AA crew.

Gotta disagree with this. The Bluestreak crew failed to see and avoid the helicopter that killed them. One of a pilot’s primary responsibilities is to see and avoid other traffic and they didn’t do it.

I’m not in anyway arguing that this isn’t primarily on the helo crew (or now that they’re dead their leadership), just pointing out that the bluestreak crew doesn’t get a pass.

The controller will probably catch some heat too, though I’d put it more on the system than the individual.

The FAA tends to write rules in blood, perhaps they’ll tighten up procedures in this airspace. The cynic in me wonders if the FAA’s response would have been quicker and heavier if there were VIPs on board instead of it just being a training flight…

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
Gotta disagree with this. The Bluestreak crew failed to see and avoid the helicopter that killed them. One of a pilot’s primary responsibilities is to see and avoid other traffic and they didn’t do it.

This is delusion.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that much like most aviation and other large disasters that this won't be found to be a single person's fault.

A series of events came together in a way that all the holes in the swiss cheese aligned resulting in an aluminum shower into the Potomac. If any single event in the chain didn't occur, nothing would have happened.