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Member |
Gambit123, a suggestion. The world around us is full of ugly, violence, and inequity. That's unfortunately part of our lot in life for being human. My suggestion, based upon my own ups and downs through the years, is to actively look for the good around you. Its there, and sometimes you have to search for it, but its affirming and encouraging. And when its not, find a way to make it yourself. A couple of us at church started a group that takes advantage of the skillsets of church members to try and give back to our elderly retired members living on meager incomes. Though you will rarely find me sitting in a pew in church, you will find me frequently spending part of a Saturday or Sunday doing repairs or replacements at church members homes. The church mostly covers the costs, and me and others donate the time and skills. I truly believe you find God inside yourself, not sitting in a church listening to the same stories over and over. Take the underlying tenants of the golden rule and try and find ways to do for others, and hopefully through your efforts you'll inspire others to do the same. With enough of that effort, we can push away much of the ugly that is way too easy to get caught up in. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Alienator |
What you describe is very different from anything you would find in the Bible. I would suggest starting with the New Testament, who Christ is, why came and died, and why he was risen. SIG556 Classic P220 Carry SAS Gen 2 SAO SP2022 9mm German Triple Serial P938 SAS P365 FDE Psalm 118:24 "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it" | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Yes, when you go to a restaurant, do you eat the menu? | |||
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Exceptional Circumstances |
For me it is so hard to to believe in that which I cannot not fathom or explain. Part of it is how I was raised to believe in God. I was raised catholic and have been turned off by so many things that I see in the church. It is not to say that I don't believe but somewhere along the way I conflated my distate for the church with my own faith. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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| Triggers don't pull themselves  |
I believe in the God of the Bible and salvation through Jesus. Explaining why good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people is quite a challenge. My general thoughts are that we live in a fallen world contaminated by sin. I did find this perspective on the Bible by Jordan Peterson very interesting, likewise a second clip in that same interview on the cross. Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, and the Bible | |||
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Spread the Disease |
I've always felt that the entire idea of a creator/god/etc. has been ludicrous and illogical- fairy tales, as you say. Either way, I don't try to preach to those who choose to believe, and I hold them to the same standard (though a good debate can be fun). I've known plenty of folks that I would bet serious money that they don't actually believe, but keep up the illusion for various reasons. I've actually talked with a few folks who literally told me that they believe "just in case". I didn't bother to point out how ludicrous, illogical, and hypocritical that was from a Christian standpoint. Go with your gut. If you really believe, more power to you. If you don't, then learn to be OK with that. I'm OK with dying, death, etc. and not knowing at all what happens. It's unavoidable, so why dwell on it? I have better things to do on Earth. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
What's illogical is to believe that all which exists sprang out of nothing, for no cause, and initiated by no entity. The cop-out of pointing to the allegory and metaphor of religious scripture is an old ploy and it does not work on those who know that most people- especially atheists- do not dig deeply enough to even find the right questions to ask. Ridiculing ancient stories- stories which were for a non-literate population- which are calculated to point you to the mystery beyond human understanding, is high school stuff, emanating from smug, ignorant people who think they know the answers about the nature of existence. If you wish to defend your position, address my post on the first page of this thread. | |||
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| Spread the Disease |
I never said that. I'm addressing the OP and feel no need to address your post to defend my position. You and I tend to get into it once a year or so, and I don't want to pollute the OP's thread with unnecessary head-butting. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
Then, don't get cute, and just stay out of it. This "Hey, whatever floats your boat" crap is pointless. Everyone already knows that. And you're already "polluting" this thread. Talking about "what is the point of contemplating death?". GMAFB. If you don't know, wow... | |||
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"Member" |
"The earth is a classroom for the soul." We're here to suffer and hopefully learn. | |||
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| If you see me running try to keep up  |
There's really too much to go in to for me to type, but there has been some good info given. I'll gladly have a conversation with you about this, just email me. Nothing you are questioning has not been asked before. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
That's the understatement of the epoch. We're discussing a deep, complex mystery which can be approached from countless different directions and there is just no way to get in the ballpark without volumes of writing or hours of speech. When people have asked me if I believe in God, it used to be that I could give them a short, straight answer, but as I've gone along in this life, whenever I get the question, I find it necessary to first establish what they mean by "God" and after that, the answer is anything but short or straight. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Shaman |
First and foremost, we are all, everything, nothing but forces of energy. Everything you think you're toughing, it not solid matter. Matter itself is different opposing and attracting forces of energy. What makes it exist? I don't know. What I think I know is that we leave an impression on everything we touch. Within our thoughts. We affect what's around us in ways we can't see. We are (and everything) are all part of one source of energy that makes what we perceive to exist. As Carl Sagan put it, we are how the Universe knows itself.  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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Member |
And that’s my struggle with “religion” and faith right now. _____________________ Be careful what you tolerate. You are teaching people how to treat you. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
This points to String Theory, which, to a Pantheist like me, offers many, many clues. My belief is that all things are only one thing; differentiation is an illusion. As the Hindus put it, all things are merely different facets of the same radiant jewel. To me, that one thing, that "radiant jewel" is and must be, God. Deepak Chopra said essentially the same thing: "We are the Universe becoming conscious of itself," or words to that effect. | |||
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Semper Fi - 1775 |
I am following this thread in small doses; a quick read and then dip out for a bit. Staying in too long causes my mind to try and comprehend…everything…and that does not work. ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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| Shaman |
Yes, string theory, quantum entanglement offer many clued. The study of quantum physics has helped expand my pantheist beliefs and more to animist. As we are all connected. Even after the body dies. I can only hope that our memories are stored through quantum entanglement. Perhaps that why some people can see echos of the dead. He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast  |
Well said cas. You mention something I have been thinking about a lot lately. Specifically how we tend to learn much more from a loss or a bad loss than from a moment of triumph. Losing or suffering through something forces you to reflect while winning tends to make one more apathetic towards reflection and change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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Lost |
I would point to the story of the rich man and Lazarus from the Bible. In their earthly life, the rich man had everything, and the beggar Lazarus had nothing but hardship and suffering. But in the afterlife, the situation was completely reversed- the rich man was in Hell, and Lazarus comforted at the side of the prophet Abraham. It's a choice between short term happiness (here on earth), or long term (i.e. eternal) bliss in Heaven. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
That's an excellent summation, Para. That's about as close as you are going to come, intellectually, to understanding the very existence of God. However, as has also been pointed out: Originally posted by NavyGuy: Our pea brains aren't yet capable working through this with any certainty. Like NavyGuy I'm a Catholic. I do go to church regularly, though not always. I get more out of it on some days, and with some priests than others. It's not always "fulfilling". Sometimes it just seems like going through the motions. BUT, what I think many people have a hard time with is that FAITH is a GIFT. It's something I struggle with. I don't always have it, certainly not as strong as some who are filled with a deep faith. That's why I think most people can benefit from organized religion. It's because we all have doubts and even if those doubts are not answered to our satisfaction on an intellectual level they are addressed on a spiritual level, at times, when we are open to it. When people say "Keep the faith" I think what they really mean is "Keep searching, Keep trying, don't give up". At least that's my take on it... "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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