I just feel like there is nothing there. I pray, use to go to church. I try to be a good person. Why does it feel like he's punishing good people for no reason. They say everything happens for a reason but that's horse shit. Im just starting to think and and religion is horse shit.

What you no longer believe in, is your idea of God.

It's all just fairy tales.

https://youtu.be/e_lSERfLMec


I believe most religions are a blueprint to a fulfilling life. Do this, don't do that, forgive and forget, love one another, etc. If you follow the rules you'll likely have a decent life filled with ups and downs but won't carry demons with you the way unguided people do.

Being a good guy, praying, going to church every Sunday and putting money in the collection plate doesn't make us immune from the reality that sometimes life sucks. Take it one step at a time and focus on what the next thing you have to do to make things better. Good luck.

What it is, is is complex.

The "fairy tales" are metaphors, and when you take those metaphors literally (as we are taught to do when we are very young), you end up going down the wrong path, which runs to a dead end, and you have arrived at that dead end.

What you no longer believe in is your concept of God. You have to look past your preconceptions. However, you've arrived at a place where nothing I could say would matter, and I'll be presumptuous and say that based upon these few comments of mine, you think that I am hopelessly brainwashed, and that I have been taken in by the con job.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
What you no longer believe in, is your idea of God.

That’s a good point.

How do you know God? From the teachings of a powerful and political pulpit? You’re going to have to dig in to scripture for yourself because very few churches actually do what they’re supposed to do. That’s to make disciples (disciplined people) and when the New Testament writings referred to “scripture” it wasn’t talking about the New Testament writings themselves, they were clearly referring to the Scripture that actually existed at the time the New Testament was bring written. I’m not sure you can get much scriptural understanding from modern church.

If you have faith that there is something greater than yourself. Something that created this uncomprehendingly complex universe we live in. Something that gives us the path to live a full life, be happy and treat others. I believe that is what it is all about. That gift is there and attainable for anyone. It’s up to us as individuals to choose. There is no higher power deciding what happens. If the world burns it’s on us.

Being angry while posting this was probably not a good idea. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Being Irish & Sicilian, if there is such a thing, I was born Catholic. A fallen away Catholic now, but I believe in God

I might be Jewish now as I try to live by the THe Ten Commandments. I’m doing good except for swearing.

Religion is vital for man's relationship to his creator, to the creator of all things. The stories in the Bible and other religious scripture are calculated to reach a broad audience, and at a basic level.

But, forget about the Bible and "God in Heaven" and Jesus rose from the dead after three days and ascended to Heaven. Forget all of that. You have to look past the fables (and, in some cases, the anecdotal re-telling of historical events) to see that God does exist.

I know this will bounce right off of you. I've been there. It's ludicrous, I know.

quote:

Originally posted by gambit123:
I apologize if I offended anyone.

You might as well apologize for being human. You might as well apologize for giving thought to the origin of your existence. A thinking man has doubts. Only fools are certain.

quote:

Originally posted by gambit123:
Being angry while posting this was probably not a good idea. I apologize if I offended anyone.

I don’t think anyone is offended. But why are you angry? Did church disappoint you or leave you behind? Do you feel lied to? You probably were. Do you feel that a good God shouldn’t let things you don’t like happen?

quote:

Originally posted by gambit123:
Being angry while posting this was probably not a good idea. I apologize if I offended anyone.

No apology necessary, at least for me. It's good that you're angry though. We live in a society that suppresses one of the most powerful driving emotions, particularly in men. Get mad, get angry then get busy making the necessary changes.

After all, if that chick banged Mark Zuckerberg in college he would have been just another programmer simp. Instead his anger changed the world and not for the better.

I do believe in God, that there is a power greater than ourselves that created the universe, and which we do not and cannot fully understand.

I do not believe in religion. I believe religion is a man made creation developed to control the masses although also with mostly good intentions to create a structure beneficial for humans to coexist. To say this created power in those who rose to high positions within those religions and that that power was and is often abused would be an understatement.

I do not take any of the teachings and parables of religious writings literally. They were written by man not God. But I try to live my life in accordance with the basic principles espoused in most of those religions because I do believe it is the path to a better and more fulfilling life and beneficial to a society of people.

I do not believe God has a plan for each of us and that events are pre ordained. I believe man has free will to make choices and decisions, which is why bad things happen to good people, not that we simply do not understand the reasons for such things.

Last thought. I know we have many members here who are deeply religious and have very different beliefs than mine. I hope this post is not taken as criticism of them or their beliefs, and that I have not offended any of these members . I respect your beliefs. These are just mine.

If you want something to contemplate- something which will really make you think and which ultimately may give you hope, try this on for size:

There was this guy named Leibniz who lived in the 17th Century. This guy was brilliant beyond brilliant- a man so smart, the word 'genius' is laughably inadequate to describe his intellect. Along with Isaac Newton, Leibniz developed one of the two branches of Calculus.

But, Leibniz was more than a mathematician. He was a statesman and a philosopher. Leibniz posed a question which I think any agnostic or atheist should ponder. Today, it is referred to as the Primordial Existential Question, or simply P.E.Q. for short. It's a straightforward question:

Why is there something, rather than nothing?

That is to say, why does anything, at all, exist? Forget about the Bible for a second. Forget it even exists, and ask yourself: Where did all this come from? Why does matter exist? Why do the basic building blocks of all matter even exist? Why, even, does the field in which all of this stuff resides, exist? Did everything spontaneously arise out of nothing? How could that happen, and why would it happen? What mechanism could cause that to happen?

And that leads to the second thing you should ponder:

A Dominican priest by the name of Thomas Aquinas lived in the 13th Century. Unlike most people who lived at that time, Aquinas had access to books. He studied, among others, Aristotle, and one thing Aristotle wrote about was the motion of bodies; planetary bodies, and, well, everything else as well. Aguinas developed Aristotle's idea's into a concept called "The Prime Mover". In a very tiny nutshell, Aquinas said that the universe is in motion, and if you work backwards from today, you come to what he referred to as "The First Cause". Something had to get the ball rolling, yes? There was a first cause of motion, and that cause is the prime mover, and that mover, is God.

So, Leibniz finds God in the very existence of everything/anything at all, and Aquinas pinpoints the entity which put all things into motion.

Significantly (and if I recall correctly), Aquinas said the Prime Mover- that which set all in motion- is itself motionless. Why is that significant? It's significant because it means God does not move within our lives, and that can explain why there is suffering in the world. You have an expectation that God is moving the chess pieces on the board. What if this is not so? Does that mean that there is no God? No, what it may mean is that God hears your prayers, but, being motionless, God does not answer.

If you've decided there is no God and that everything is meaningless, and that's where you are content with being, then, nothing I've written will make any difference. However, since you appear to be contemplating the existence of God, you would do well to take the time to think about what I've posted.


A couple more things: Aquinas worked backwards to find God in his "Prime Mover". The oh, so smart scientists of today developed the theory of what is known as the Big Bang in the very same way. They looked at the known universe and observed its expansion, and then they worked that expansion backwards in time, and they arrived at what they refer to as a "singularity", a single point of infinite smallness and infinite density which, for whatever reason (hmmmm), inflated at incredible speed to create our universe.

And now, a joke for you, which addresses some of my points:

One day, a group of scientists confront God. Standing before the Almighty in their lab coats and with their extensive educations, they smugly tell God "You are no longer needed. We have figured out how to create life in the laboratory. We can do this at will, and it works perfectly every time, so, we no longer need you."

God says "OK, show me."

A scientist reaches down to pick up a handful of dirt, and God says "No, no. Get your own dirt."

I will offer my hopes that whatever led to your anger is resolved as best as possible.

I’m not a particulary religious person but my wife has a framed saying in our bathroom that I really like.


“Having faith doesn’t mean god will always change your situation sometimes he changes you”.

quote:

Originally posted by gambit123:
Being angry while posting this was probably not a good idea. I apologize if I offended anyone.

No apology is necessary. I've been there.
Something occurred which lead to anger. Family, friend or friends, current state of things, etc.
Mine was my mother's death 16 years ago. Of course I went to the church for her funeral. Graveside service with the priest and all that went with it. Afterwards though, I basically renounced God and the church. I wouldn't go and I was raised Greek Orthodox so I went to Sunday school and church regularly.
Para put it probably the best that anyone could in what type of thinking should happen when you start to question things. It's fine to question, everyone should,but you should come up with some type of answer using logic instead of emotion.
Took me years to finally get rid of the anger I had at religion and even though I'm not a regular at church, I can go now and not feel what I felt before.
I sincerely hope that you get to a good point with all of this.

gambit123, I am an agnostic. Not an atheist, but an agnostic. Have been my entire life, I suppose. Or at least from the time I figured out I could make my own decisions.

I'm an agnostic because, on the one hand I need to see proof to Believe. OTOH: Read, for example, parabellum's "If you want something to contemplate..." post.

Reading your comments: I'm not convinced you no longer believe in God. I suspect what it really is, is you're angry with God because you believe you've led a righteous life and you're not realizing the rewards you feel due for having done so.

Even being an agnostic I know that's not how the whole God Thing works.

I'm reminded of this, from my late high school days:

When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the Lord with prayer
You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!

-- The Soft Parade, The Doors, 1969

I don't know what travails you've faced, or are facing, that have led you to where you are now, but I hope things soon turn around for you.

I stumbled upon this quote recently while researching the Antonine Plague as well as the life, philosophy, and leadership of Marcus Aurelius.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.


It is not hard to look back at history and wonder about the existence of God. I did not find your statement to be offensive. It’s easy to get angry. Trust me I get that. The one constant in life is change. It is only logical to realize changes in our lives will not always be for the best, sometimes it can be brutally painful. This world is truly not fair and seems to be absurd at times.

The events of the last two years have certainly pushed many people very close to the breaking point or well past that point.

Sometimes it’s helpful just to know others are listening. What ever has gotten you angry I hope will only be a temporary frustration.

I am so sorry, I hope you find your way.
It's not up to me to convince you as it is a personal decision.