quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
...But RPGs don't have pictures...

They are so laughably easy to use that they don’t require them. And the launchers are reusable. And most importantly, not US made.

I know. It's a joke, Francis.

The Venezuelans are waiting around for someone else to do it for them. It's largely who they are.

Make no mistake. They aren't 'revolting' in any large numbers. And those that are - are not wanting to dispense with socialism.

They just want a form of socialism where they get their free shit back.

And even that motivation isn't enough for them to seize the airports, ports and ports of entry/exit to send the message.

"We are coming. We are going to lay hands on you. Abdicate immediately or accept your fate."

The troops that are switching sides give me some hope. There is a lot of cowardice on both sides. Maduros hand must be forced. But it looks like they are not shedding heavy blood - yet, which is good.

Guaido is a socialist shit bag, too. Who knows what's coming next.

"Where's my free shit?". The sequel.

Here we are, two days into it, Guiado's revolution, and it fizzled out like a cheap Chinese firecracker. There simply is no sacrifice Venezuelans care to make to free themselves from the yoke of tyranny. Whatever 'suffering' they have endured has absolutely failed to reach the depths of their cowardice. It runs that deep. Even as their nation is plundered by foreign entities seeking to lock down the rape of what few resources they have (because their people aren't one), they are doing nothing to free themselves.

They deserve everything they are getting as this stalemate continues. Which is only going to become even less as furthered sanctions take effect.

Hard to have sympathy for a people that don't care about their own freedom and self-determination enough to stand up to a pissant bus driver and an array of stooges propping him up.

A sad situation, to be sure.

At least they are providing a real time example of how socialism ends up.

Should it happen here, let's try not to tuck our tails up underneath us so tightly.

^ I was hoping it wouldn’t be this, but sadly, that’s what it is looking like.

What if you threw a coup and nobody came?

Guaido's latest rally drew several HUNDRED people.

Such a courageous people.

Where are your God's now?

The arrests begin

National Assembly Vice President Edgar Zambrano is arrested by police.

I wonder what happens to those arrested for treason and instigating an insurrection?

The Venezuelan people don't seem to care.

It's likely the roundups will continue to suppress resistance.

Rumors are terrorists are being brought in to support Maduro.

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — The latest on the political conflict in Venezuela (all times local):

7:30 p.m.

Venezuelan lawmakers say security forces have arrested the No. 2 leader in the opposition-controlled congress as political tensions mount in the crisis-wracked nation.

The lawmakers say National Assembly Vice President Edgar Zambrano was in his car when it was surrounded by heavily armed police outside his Democratic Action party's headquarters Wednesday.

Party head Carlos Prosperi says security forces towed the car away with the lawmaker still inside.

Government officials announced that Zambrano and several other lawmakers were under investigation for treason and instigating an insurrection.

Zambrano is one of nine opposition politicians who appeared with opposition leader Juan Guaidó during last week's failed attempt to encourage a military uprising against President Nicolas Maduro.

___

Without a successful coup, Venezuela becomes nothing but a client state of China and Russia.
The people will continue to suffer.

Cubazuela

It’s not over yet.

quote:

Party head Carlos Prosperi says security forces towed the car away with the lawmaker still inside.

Strange way to take someone into custody... unless you’re going right to the car crusher.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
It’s not over yet.

No, it's not. This is one of the slower slow-motion wars we've seen since (arguably, at least) the Cold War.

May 11, 2019
Allow Venezuela to Fail
By Alexander G. Markovsky

Are we stepping on the same rakes again -- in Venezuela? Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently tweeted “My message to the Venezuelan people is clear: the United States stands firmly with you in your quest for freedom and democracy.” He also confirmed that the military option is on the table. In other words, the U.S. is ready to liberate the Venezuelan people from themselves.

For those who suffer historical amnesia, it is worth pointing out, that the Venezuelans had democratic elections and they have chosen socialism. Hugo Chavez was a socialist, and he ran on a socialist platform and got elected with wide popular support. So was his successor Nicolás Maduro.

Whether the Venezuelans voted for socialist serfdom knowingly or they have been duped is irrelevant. If people are ignorant or complacent, they deserve the government they elect. As Barack Obama famously said, “Elections have consequences.”

We have to be mindful, though, that every ism -- socialism, capitalism, fascism, etc. -- has its supporters and benefactors. Those who imagine themselves on the receiving end have every reason to think they will be better off with socialism. State bureaucracy, army, and police support the government that provides them with the benefits they would not have otherwise.

The imposition of sanctions does not impact this segment of the population, but is making a gap between them and the rest of the people much wider. Any attempts to replace the regime by staged demonstrations and riots would likely fail. The existing political forces, embedded in the military and police are stronger and better organized than the opposition. If an order cannot be negotiated it will be imposed by force.

Current events should not tilt the scale toward intervention without consideration of the impact on the ongoing political debate in this country. Given the Democratic Party's proclivities, interference with the Venezuelan affairs would provide the likes of Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and a host of other Democratic loons a propaganda coup blaming the U.S. for destroying the country of triumphant and prosperous socialism. In this context, evolution of thinking about how we approach socialism in the post-Soviet era internationally and domestically is required.

If the United States could succeed in removing the Maduro regime, what would be the lesson for irresponsible voters? If they need fear no consequence -- other than a return to the prior status quo thanks to the assistance of American Marines -- wouldn’t a recurrence of socialism there or somewhere else be possible, even probable?

Military intervention may well turn into another unmitigated disaster costing American lives, and we would undoubtedly end up adopting Venezuela, pumping billions of taxpayers’ money into a futile effort to rebuild the failed nation. Even if socialist Venezuela burns down to the ground, it isn’t worth the life of a single American Marine.

The most pragmatic way to deal with Venezuela’s socialist rule is to make it an example for those who take their liberty for granted. We need to remove all the sanctions and let Venezuela be an illustration of democratic socialism for all the left-wing lunatics willing to vote for it.

Removal of sanctions would also address the United States’ legitimate concern regarding the growing influence of Russia and China in the region. The reason the Russians and Chinese support the regime is not ideological, but rather political and commercial. Russia, China, and Venezuela are on the same sanction list, which drives them into economic and political amalgamation. As a result of sanctions, Venezuela cannot sell its oil on the open markets, so the Russians and Chinese buy it at a discount, making healthy profits. They also see an opportunity in acquiring Venezuela’s assets on a chip. Removal of sanctions would significantly diminish their interest in the country.

America’s democratic aspirations for the region have been embraced by administrations of both parties. Unfortunately, security concerns and democracy have been in conflict. The United States has had a difficult time finding leaders who wouldn’t use democracy as a means to achieve their own dominance and treat it as irrevocable.

Venezuelans had democracy, but they failed to keep it -- and there is no reason to believe that Juan Guaido’s rule would lead to the restoration of democratic principles.

We all have to absorb the historical lessons that socialism cannot be defeated -- it self-destructs. Therefore, we should not interfere with socialism while it is in the process of destroying itself.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.co...l.html#ixzz5nd9S0JLS

quote:

Interesting article, but I have to point out utter bullshit in the 2nd and 3rd sentences. Chavez won his first election, and every election SINCE then has been utterly corrupt and invalid. He rewrote the entire Constitution in his second year...

Yeah, I think that's true.
And it should serve as a warning to those who would vote for socialism here.
"The masses can VOTE their way into socialism, but you always end up having to SHOOT your way out of it"

But, I do agree with the basic conclusion of the author that we should avoid military intervention.
He also makes a pretty good case that even sanctions backfire.

quote:

Removal of sanctions would also address the United States’ legitimate concern regarding the growing influence of Russia and China in the region. The reason the Russians and Chinese support the regime is not ideological, but rather political and commercial.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

For those who suffer historical amnesia, it is worth pointing out, that the Venezuelans had democratic elections and they have chosen socialism. Hugo Chavez was a socialist, and he ran on a socialist platform and got elected with wide popular support. So was his successor Nicolás Maduro.

Whether the Venezuelans voted for socialist serfdom knowingly or they have been duped is irrelevant. If people are ignorant or complacent, they deserve the government they elect. As Barack Obama famously said, “Elections have consequences.”

Interesting article, but I have to point out utter bullshit in the 2nd and 3rd sentences. Chavez won his first election, and every election SINCE then has been utterly corrupt and invalid. He rewrote the entire Constitution in his second year...

Bear in mind that Barack Obama won elections twice. Are we to write off the US for good, as they chose leftism as well?

One final point. Only 3% of Americans actively participated in the Revolutionary War, and it took the assistance of a global power at the time (France) to ultimately win the war. Food for thought.

Maduro won a close election. After that he stacked the deck so he couldn't lose another. He grabbed power and ruled by decree and took away the National Assembly's power to legislate. I promise you that is not what their country voted for.

Venezuela has addictions that will likely always lead to the same problems they are having now. They are addicted to easy money from oil and they are exponentially hurt worse that other oil producers from drops in oil prices. It's boom or bust for them. Instead of saving boom money for bust time, they spend it on their other addiction social programs. These two addictions are intertwined and inseparable. The easy money addiction keeps other industries from springing up in their country. Their lack of other business in the country stratifies the people into rich, super rich, and poor. This fuels the need for social programs. The presence of social programs along with the hurdels to doing busines kill entrepreneurship. This leads to more reliance on social programs, which leads on to more reliance on oil revenues. And on, and on.

Their addiction to oil and socialism is killing the country. The people wouldn't know what to do with freedom and self reliance if it was handed to them I fear. This is why I think no matter what happens there they are not going to turn into a capitalist democratic country no matter what happens, at least don't imagine anything like the US.

I pray for them.

ETA Agreed chellim, we should not intervene. I would be against it unless there were actual rivers of blood in the streets.

That, sadly, is the point. In trying to provide an option to totalitarianism we have to not only attempt to preach the virtues of freedom but preach the virtues of elections since free elections are the only way we know of to keep and expand on freedom. The only alternative, in whatever guise, is the hidalgo on a tall white horse, and the hidalgo on a tall white horse will inevitably lead people (willingly or unwillingly) to rank totalitarianism.

I agree on free elections.

What is the alternative when there is no possibility of a free election ever taking place?

Just throw up one’s hands and walk away? The power disparity is such that no possible civil insurrection would succeed, particularly given foreign military involvement. Venezuelan soldiers might have issues firing on countrymen, but Russians, Chinese, Iranians and Cubans face no such qualms.

quote:

Their addiction to oil and socialism is killing the country. The people wouldn't know what to do with freedom and self reliance if it was handed to them I fear. This is why I think no matter what happens there they are not going to turn into a capitalist democratic country no matter what happens, at least don't imagine anything like the US.

Yeah... self-reliance is hard. Once self-reliance is lost it's hard to get it back. The people of Venezuela will have a hard time with gaining the mind-set and personal fortitude it will take to re-build a free-market economy.

Socialism and dependency is the easy choice, but always leads to tyranny and destruction.
We have a growing number of young people who would make the easy choice and trade liberty for perceived security.
As Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If it is useful in any way, in my country, Argentina, we had for a long time a government that was close with Chavez and it's corrupting ideology. One of the long term effects was the creation of a mob of non working government hand out benefits dependant, useless and mostly worthess human being subspecies.
We now have to live with at least three generations of such people. They do not have a culture of working for a living. Grand fathers, parents and children have never aspired to a real job. That breeds delinquency, irresponsibility and shitloads of brats.

We managed to somewhat get rid of the rulers that created such class and profited mercilessly of their condition and desperate needs. They still lurk around even if some are in jail. The populace waits for their return, they love the free shit. They're not aware that it comes with the price of our current and future situation. Corruption has the deepest roots.

Hope Venezuela will heal at soonest.

0-0