quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Except the government, indirectly, requires real property insurance by limiting the risk exposure of all financial and lending institutions (at least in Virginia, your primary personal property is a vehicle, which by law, must be insured).

Those institutions, in turn, require casualty insurance on the real property used as collateral (e.g., to limit risk from fire losses due to catastrophic wildfires in urban areas).

The insurers, in turn, must have the cash, other assets, and tertiary insurance to cover losses, or the financial and lending institutions they insure run afoul of the bank laws and regulations that place restrictions of the liability exposure financial or lending institutions.

So the government does, through a roundabout means, require insurance on real property used as collateral to a financial or lending institution.

It's actually much more direct than that. Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae are either government sponsored enterprise, the first two, or a government corporation. These entities directly set the requirements for the vast majority of home loans.

Battery storage plant catches fire in California, forcing state’s latest evacuations: ‘This is a disaster’

https://nypost.com/2025/01/17/...-this-is-a-disaster/

A massive blaze erupted at one of the world’s largest lithium battery storage facilities in wildfire-ravaged California, forcing some 1,500 residents to evacuate their homes as toxic smoke filled the air.

The fire at Vistra Corp.’s Moss Landing plant along Monterey Bay — south of Santa Cruz and far from the Los Angeles wildfires — was first reported around 3 p.m. Thursday and exploded out of control into the night.

“There’s no way to sugarcoat it. This is a disaster, is what it is,” Monterey County Supervisor Glen Church told KSBW-TV. “This is extremely disconcerting.”

Monterey County spokesman Nicholas Pasculli warned locals “It’s imperative” to “heed the evacuation order and take the direction of law enforcement and fire personnel,” according to the Mercury News.

“This is a situation where we take the idea of protecting life and property very seriously. We implore people to heed the evacuation order and to go to a safe location,” he added.

Officials ordered the evacuation of about 1,500 people from areas of Moss Landing south of Elkhorn Slough, north of Molera Road and Monterey Dunes Way, and west of Castroville Boulevard and Elkhorn Road to the sea.

Residents in neighboring areas were urged to shut their windows and stay indoors and several local schools announced they would be closed on Friday.

“It’s a major incident,” Pasculli said. “All the resources in the county and our neighboring jurisdictions have been deployed to assist with this incident.”

No injuries have been reported and local officials are expected to provide an update Friday morning.

The fire was “contained” within a concrete structure that had partially collapsed, Church said.

Church said responders don’t anticipate the blaze “extending outward and getting beyond where it’s in.”

“There are a lot of batteries in there, and it’s burning pretty much inside that facility,” he said.

The facility is owned by Texas-based Vistra Energy and is one of the largest storage plants in the world, holding tens of thousands of notoriously flammable lithium batteries, according to the Mercury News.

Lithium battery fires can emit toxic gases that can cause respiratory problems and skin burns and are difficult to extinguish.

The large plant, which stores some 750 megawatts, is part of California’s ongoing efforts to go green and supply electricity from renewable sources, the paper reported.

Vistra sells the electricity stored there to the Pacific Gas and Electric utility company. PG&E also operates a separate 182-megawatt battery storage plant on site that has 256 Tesla “Megapack” battery packs — but that did not appear to be impacted by the fire.

A megawatt is enough electricity to run 750 homes, according to the Mercury News.

A Vistra spokesperson said all its personnel were evacuated safely.

“The cause of the fire has not yet been determined, but an investigation will begin once the fire is extinguished,” the company told KSBW-TV.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...nia-evacuations.html

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Well that didn't take long....

...

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Here is a LINK to a California DTSC training from 2024 on waste characterization.

Ive been dealing with these kind of regulations for 37 years, so it makes sense to me (at least after I suspend reality because these laws start with the premise that a "solid waste" can be a liquid or a gas).

Check out the training materials. I'm curious how many non-environmental engineering/legal/scientists can make sense of this.

ETA: The training itself is accurate, as far as I can tell based on my knowledge of California's laws and regulations, but it is about one horrendously complex regulatory scheme.

Further, this is about waste characterization ONLY.

It does not address the other generator, transporter, or treatment, storage, or disposal facility construction, operation, or permitting requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Battery storage plant catches fire in California

The large plant, which stores some 750 megawatts, is part of California’s ongoing efforts to go green and supply electricity from renewable sources, the paper reported.

That's mighty green of them.

Way to reduce their "carbon footprint."

I'd rather take my chances with MODERN coal plants.

And if anyone can explain how you "store" 750 megawatts, I'm all ears. More bad reporting where the reporter doesn't know anything about the topic they are reporting on.

quote:

And if anyone can explain how you "store" 750 megawatts, I'm all ears.

Everyone knows it easily holds 1.21 gigawatts....

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Battery storage plant catches fire in California, forcing state’s latest evacuations: ‘This is a disaster’

This is between Santa Cruz and Monterey and right on the coast. This is pristine coastal/ag area. What I'm trying to figure out is there a gas plant that generates power, exports the power while also recharging the batteries in off peak hours, which are then discharged during peak hours?

Any who......CA is on fire!

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
And if anyone can explain how you "store" 750 megawatts, I'm all ears. More bad reporting where the reporter doesn't know anything about the topic they are reporting on.

Is that not what the batteries that caught on fire were for?

Here's a Reuters article: California battery plant is among world's largest as power storage booms. It talks about storing 680 megawatts of electricity at one plant and has pictures of a giant parking lot filled with semi-trailer or probably more accurately rail car sized battery packs.

Edited to add:

Never mind, the light bulb over my head lit up as I drove my daughter to school, you’re talking about a watt not being a measure of storage capacity.

Moss Land site's total energy storage capacity to 750 MW/3,000 MWh.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

quote:

What I'm trying to figure out is there a gas plant that generates power, exports the power while also recharging the batteries in off peak hours, which are then discharged during peak hours?

Yeah... I don't understand this either.
How much power is lost in transmission and storage? Whether coal or natural gas, wouldn't it be better to generate power when needed rather than attempt to store it?

^^^Think solar and wind generation. Besides those, starting large generators, especially steam drive ones, is not a matter of simply flipping a switch. They can take an hour or more. Running them when not needed is expensive and wasteful, so it's a balancing act. There's RICE natural gas powered generators that can started in 5 minutes and that may work for Marquette, MI (I blame Yoopersig), but probably not LA, CA.

The battery storage makes it easier to the generating plants to respond to peak demand.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
…
Whether coal or natural gas, wouldn't it be better to generate power when needed rather than attempt to store it?

< Cali idiot screeching voice >

Noooooooooo!! Global warming!!!

We need these plants to store power to charge cellphones and Teslas when the Sun ain’t shining and the wind ain’t blowing.

< Cali idiot screeching voice stops >

Now what, cream puffs? You can’t charge from batteries because those batteries are molten pools of goo.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
This is between Santa Cruz and Monterey and right on the coast. This is pristine coastal/ag area. What I'm trying to figure out is there a gas plant that generates power, exports the power while also recharging the batteries in off peak hours, which are then discharged during peak hours?

Any who......CA is on fire!

Yes and Yes.
Moss Landing power plant is a gas-fired electrical plant right there along the coast across from the marina and on Elkhorn Slough. The tall cooling towers are eye-sore and point of contention for the environ-mentals, never mind that it's also a major electrical battery storage facility. With the batteries there, easy enough to connect them to the main transmission and distribution lines.

I don't know, but I think Canada is trying to buy California real cheap.

I hope this is just a Cali thing and a run up to something more in every state. Sorry but it could show how vulnerable we might be.

On Friday morning, Cal Fire reported over 40,600 acres has burned, more than 12,300 structures are destroyed, 27 people are confirmed to have been killed, and dozens remain missing.

40,600 acres is 63 square miles, larger than the area of Washington, DC (61 sq. Mi.).

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
^^^Think solar and wind generation. Besides those, starting large generators, especially steam drive ones, is not a matter of simply flipping a switch. They can take an hour or more. Running them when not needed is expensive and wasteful, so it's a balancing act. There's RICE natural gas powered generators that can started in 5 minutes and that may work for Marquette, MI (I blame Yoopersig), but probably not LA, CA.

The battery storage makes it easier to the generating plants to respond to peak demand.

Yes, analogous to accumulators, capacitors, reservoirs...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1880253537533165909

The Paradise/Camp Fire in 2018 killed 85 people and destroyed 18,000 structures. As of today, less than 20% of those structures have been rebuilt. My sister heard that realtors up in Oregon and Washington are now really busy with Californians.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1880253537533165909

... My sister heard that realtors up in Oregon and Washington are now really busy with Californians.

If true that's GOOD news for us in AZ as we are all full up with Californicators here!
I lived in OR from 1957-1971 and in WA from 1971-2001. Since leaving they have both become Far North CA.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HRK:
Well that didn't take long....



Here is a LINK to a California DTSC training from 2024 on waste characterization.

Ive been dealing with these kind of regulations for 37 years, so it makes sense to me (at least after I suspend reality because these laws start with the premise that a "solid waste" can be a liquid or a gas).

Check out the training materials. I'm curious how many non-environmental engineering/legal/scientists can make sense of this.

ETA: The training itself is accurate, as far as I can tell based on my knowledge of California's laws and regulations, but it is about one horrendously complex regulatory scheme.

Further, this is about waste characterization ONLY.

It does not address the other generator, transporter, or treatment, storage, or disposal facility construction, operation, or permitting requirements.

So here’s an interesting question:
There’s the stupid safety warnings on everything now. From my TV to the paint on my walls: “This contains materials that have been known to cause cancer in the state of California”…

Does that count as “Hazardous Materials”?
Because if it does, how much is THAT going to cost?!?!

So these battery-based electricity storage facilities (I suspect this in not the only one) are intended to assist when demand for power exceeds generative capacity. So what happens this summer when CA residents want to cool their homes while charging their Govt. mandated BEV's? Massive state-wide blackouts!

Thinking maybe Generac might be a good investment option...except you won't be "allowed" to burn fossil fuels in CA to run them. Talk about stepping in their own shit!

quote:

Moss Landing power plant is a gas-fired electrical plant right there along the coast across from the marina and on Elkhorn Slough. The tall cooling towers are eye-sore and point of contention for the environ-mentals, never mind that it's also a major electrical battery storage facility.

I've been there.

When my daughter and son-in-law were stationed in Monterey we went on a whale watching excursion out of Moss Landing. Moss Landing power plant's large stacks are landmarks, visible throughout the Monterey Bay Area. You can navigate back to Moss Landing by locating the stacks as they are visible by sea for a long distance.

In 1949, Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) began construction on the Moss Landing Power Plant. Five natural gas and oil powered steam units were built during the 1950s. Commercial generation started in 1950 with a capacity of 613 MW.

In 1964, the construction of two additional units began (6 and 7), with two new 500-foot (150 m) stacks. These two units had a capacity of 750 MW each for a total of 1500 MW, with 180 feet (55 m) tall boilers. They employed a newer technology using supercritical steam at 3,600 psi (25 MPa).