Our 'justice' system just doesn't work very well. We see it all the time. This case involved actual nefarious actions by the prosecutors, but our system is generally imprecise, subjective, and politicized. I have zero confidence in our justice system and would advice anyone to stay the hell away from the system.

quote:

Originally posted by Hildur:
Someone needs to be held responsible. If not Baldwin then someone else. Only then will justice be served.

The set armorer has already been convicted of manslaughter.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Our 'justice' system just doesn't work very well.

The system worked. The prosecutor and the police conspired to withhold evidence. The judge acted correctly.

Baldwin is still a murderer and should pay the penalty, but the prosecutor screwed up and Baldwin walks.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Our 'justice' system just doesn't work very well.

The system worked. The prosecutor and the police conspired to withhold evidence. The judge acted correctly.

Baldwin is still a murderer and should pay the penalty, but the prosecutor screwed up and Baldwin walks.

True enough in this case. However, the system itself sucks and is, in fact, terrifying.

It the system worked as you claim, Baldwin would be behind bars.

If the prosecutors and cops fucked up, then charge the prosecutors and cops with a criminal case

But don’t fuck over the family and make a laughing stock of the ‘system’ in the name of ‘justice’

Suppose Baldwin had shot the President. You really think they’d let him walk away because someone stuffed 3 bullets in the wrong envelope

Depending on how you define "justice system", it is more or less working. If you define "justice system" to include the police and court system, it is mostly working. The goal of the "justice system" is to catch bad guys and punish them appropriately through appropriate means.

The police have to catch the bad guys, and they have to do so following rules governed by our constitution and courts. The goal is not just to punish bad people, but to do so in a proper way. The court system is biased toward an abundance of protection for the accused. That means that some guilty guys go free, while we reduce the risk of innocent guys going to prison.

I don't think that many of us want to allow the police to trample on our constitutional rights for the goal of punishing more guilty people.

I saw Alan Dershowitz speak once, and I'm going to freely paraphrase. When asked how he can in good conscience help guilty people go free, he replies that he doesn't see his job as to get guilty people off. He sees his job as insuring that the police and the courts convict people properly, ie by following the rules.

As others have said, none of us should want the police and prosecutors to violate our constitutional rights, conspire to hide evidence, etc. They fucked up. The system worked, because when the cops and prosecutors fuck up there are consequences. And there should be. Stupid should hurt.

What the founders established, works.

The way people are manipulating it, is the problem, not the device.

People elect Sheriffs, most Judges, and have a voice with their vote.

How many actually know who the Judges are on the ballots and others besides a major candidate?

People are flawed. People fucked this up, from the actions leading up to the killing of Halyna Hutchins and injury to Joel Souza to every wrong step since.

And contrary to what anyone might think, Baldwin will be eaten by his selfish conscience. It will not leave even himself alone in the aftermath.

A woman died by his hand, no way around it. He knows it, and he will always wonder with anyone he ever interacts with, if they are looking at the blood on his hand.

Justice was served, even if we don't like the presentation.


I said in the very beginning of this, that I wanted Baldwin tried fairly, (because that is what we are defined as a people in this nation) and I believe the outcome, given the abominable actions taken by LE and the Prosecution, is just and fair decision by the judge.

Had the case continued to conviction and then overturned on appeal, the harm to the families of Halyna Hutchins and insult to Mr. Souza would be very wrong.

But Mr. Baldwin is forever a pariah. He won nothing.

Ol' Alec has gone from 'the guy accused of murder' to 'the guy that got away with murder'.

Forget the legal finding, that's now boring history. The wine ladies and the money men will decide on his future.

People are the weak points in most systems.

If corruption and abuse are weak points in a system, is it really a good system? Academically vs pragmatically....

I guess any system is corruptible so there is no perfect system except academically?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
If corruption and abuse are weak points in a system, is it really a good system? Academically vs pragmatically....

I guess any system is corruptible so there is no perfect system except academically?

correct, try and find a better one

Anyone who believes this was the first incidence of a miscarriage of justice due to incompetence, if not corruption, really should pay more attention to history and what goes on in the world even today.

If we expect, or even want a flawless justice system, just wait until our AI overlords are in charge, and all such travesties will be a thing of the past.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
What the founders established, works.

People are flawed...

“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”. John Adams

“Our 'justice' system just doesn't work very well.“

We don’t have a “justice” system. We have a Legal System. It rarely involves “Justice”.
Legal outcomes can vary greatly on whether “justice” was served.
Sadly, most times, it seems like expediency is more important…and it hurts my heart.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
What the founders established, works.

People are flawed...

“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”. John Adams

yep

Our founders were very smart people. What type of system would they have drafted if they assumed corruptible men? When the US is gone, what learnings would be incorporated into the constitution of the new republic?

Link

Quentin Tarantino claims Alec Baldwin was responsible to 'some degree' for gun in fatal 'Rust' shooting

Quentin Tarantino explained Alec Baldwin was responsible "to some degree" for his gun on the set of "Rust."

A judge dismissed Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter charge in July mid-trial after finding the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence from the defense. "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins died Oct. 21, 2021, after a gun Baldwin was holding fired on set. Tarantino shared his beliefs regarding guns on movie sets during an appearance on "Club Random" with Bill Maher.

"You're the perfect one to ask. Who has been on more sets than you?" Maher asked Tarantino.

"It's a situation, I think I'm being fair enough to say, that the armorer — the guy who handles the gun — is 90% responsible for everything that happens when it comes to that gun, but... the actor's 10% responsible," Tarantino said. "It's a gun. You are a partner in the responsibility, to some degree."

"So what do you do to test it?" Maher questioned.

They show it to you," Tarantino explained. "If there are steps to go through, you go through them. And it's done with due diligence, and you know it's f---ing for real all right."

"What should he have done?" Maher asked. "Should he have looked into the barrel?" The podcast host noted: "You can't shoot it because then you're like using it."

Tarantino explained the steps many industry experts claimed should have been taken in the moments before Baldwin was handed the gun on the "Rust" set. The steps include showing the barrel of the gun is clear and showing the actor the blanks inside the gun.

Representatives for Baldwin did not respond to Fox News Digital's immediate request for comment.

A jury found "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed guilty of involuntary manslaughter in March. She is currently serving her 18-month sentence but plans to appeal following Baldwin's case dismissal.

"The state's willful withholding of this information was intentional and deliberate," Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer said inside the New Mexico courthouse just a few days into Baldwin's trial. "If this conduct does not rise to the level of bad faith, it certainly comes so near to bad faith as to show signs of scorching prejudice.

"There is no way for the court to right this wrong."

The stunning blow to the prosecution team, which had been working on the case for more than three years, arrived after the state had called only seven witnesses.

Baldwin's lawyer argued gun safety was not Baldwin's responsibility in his opening statements at trial.

"The actor’s job is to act," he told the jury. "He’s Harland Rust. He’s an outlaw running for his life, who in the incident in question, he’s pulling a six-shooter to try to defend himself. That’s why the gun has to be safe before it gets into the actor’s hands."

"His mind is somewhere else: in the being of another, a century away, an outlaw."

Maybe I’m saying this because I’m a gun guy, and I have had a negligent discharge where fortunately, no one was hurt; I would always be checking the firearm. I would be looking at every round and making sure they are blanks, ESPECIALLY if I’m pointing it at another human.
I’m happy Tarantino says it’s 10% Baldwin’s fault, but seriously, I feel it’s at least 50%.
If it were me, I would feel that it may be 100% my fault AS I DIDN’T CHECK THE GUN.

Tarantino is an asshole coming to the rescue of Baldwin

there is only one person that killed Hutchins and that is the person that pulled the trigger

period, end of story

if it weren't for Baldwin, Hutchins would still be alive

he was 'in another place being an actor' is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life