"In addition to the bullet that killed Hutchins, investigators found five additional live rounds of ammunition mingled among the movie's props and costumes. Two loose .45 bullets were discovered on top of a prop cart, a third was in a bandolier worn by actor Jensen Ackles, a fourth was in a gun belt worn by Baldwin, and a fifth was found in a box of dummy ammunition with Gutierrez Reed's fingerprints on it."

From the Fox "News" piece:

quote:

Armorer Hannah Guiterrez-Reed and assistant director Dave Halls were the only other crew members believed to have handled the gun that fired on set.

...

Halls allegedly handed Baldwin a .45 revolver, telling him that it was "cold," or safe. Prior to that, Gutierrez-Reed spun the cylinder to show Halls what was in the gun, her lawyer said.

Given that, I'd be interested in hearing the DA's reasoning behind charging Baldwin and Guiterrez-Reed, but not Halls.

Sounds to me like contributory negligence all around, but, IANAL.

In fact: I'm curious as to the reasoning behind involuntary manslaughter, rather than negligent manslaughter?

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
"... a fifth was found in a box of dummy ammunition with Gutierrez Reed's fingerprints on it."

I have always wondered about the culpability of the armorer, but that is damning.
As I recall (without trying to find it again), didn’t she say she didn’t know the difference between live and dummy cartridges? If so, and true, it certainly demonstrates gross negligence, but a higher level of fault—?

And yes, rushing this sort of investigation is a recipe for prosecutorial disaster.
And a tip: If you’re not personally able to exercise the patience and caution required in such investigations, avoid a job in the criminal justice system.

Halls took a plea deal.

Snipped from the article:

The movie’s assistant director, Dave Halls, who was cited in sheriff's reports as the person who handed the weapon to Baldwin and announced to the crew it was a “cold gun,” signed a plea bargain with the DA for the charge of negligent use of a deadly weapon, accepting a suspended sentence and six months of probation.

Interesting they went after him as hard as they did with the firearm enhancement that carries a mandatory 5 year stint. The assistant director already copped a plea deal for a negligent use of deadly weapon and no jail time/suspended sentence. This appears to be a petty misdemeanor in NM.

I strongly suspect prosecutors offered Baldwin a deal and he is such an egomaniac he declined it, probably against his legal counsel guidance. So the prosecutor said ok, we shall see you in court then. Baldwin is staring at real time and a felony for life if convicted.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:


In fact: I'm curious as to the reasoning behind involuntary manslaughter, rather than negligent manslaughter?

Based on the DA's comments, it sounds like involuntary manslaughter is a negligence crime in New Mexico. Different states use different terminology to describe these crimes with varying degrees of culpability (or different mens reas/mental states). You have to read the elements of the crime to know for sure how it compares to similar charges in other places.

Reading the degrees of homicide from state to state yields a large number of words being used to define and describe the mental state required to convict a person of the various kinds of homicide. As usual, to really understand what any given charge is and what will have to be proved, you HAVE to read the statute.

Fundamentally, there are intentional homicides (which are usually divided into premeditated and unplanned intentional killings, and which can also include homicides committed intentionally but under some circumstance of mental disturbance), reckless homicides, and negligent homicides. However, this greatly simplifies the many different formulations and requirements for different crimes in different jurisdictiona, and the words used to describe these various crimes can vary a lot, and cause confusion.

This Wiki article is pretty good at making some sense out of the jumble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...in_United_States_law

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
I strongly suspect prosecutors offered Baldwin a deal and he is such an egomaniac he declined it, probably against his legal counsel guidance. So the prosecutor said ok, we shall see you in court then. Baldwin is staring at real time and a felony for life if convicted.

Do you have any direct evidence that this is actually true, or are you speculating?

Odd that there are no charges against all of them for the same bullet hitting the producer or whatever title he had.

I understand the manslaughter charge but they're all walking on the idea that they are not responsible for the other injured party? Perhaps the DA is letting that remain a civil matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Odd that there are no charges against all of them for the same bullet hitting the producer or whatever title he had.

I understand the manslaughter charge but they're all walking on the idea that they are not responsible for the other injured party? Perhaps the DA is letting that remain a civil matter.

From the above article "No charges will be filed for the wounding of Souza. District attorney spokesperson Heather Brewer explained that there is no statute in New Mexico for unintentional battery, unless the shooting leads to death".

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
"In addition to the bullet that killed Hutchins, investigators found five additional live rounds of ammunition mingled among the movie's props and costumes. Two loose .45 bullets were discovered on top of a prop cart, a third was in a bandolier worn by actor Jensen Ackles, a fourth was in a gun belt worn by Baldwin, and a fifth was found in a box of dummy ammunition with Gutierrez Reed's fingerprints on it."

Jesus that is terrifying. This is a shit show and hopefully is a wake up call.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
"In addition to the bullet that killed Hutchins, investigators found five additional live rounds of ammunition mingled among the movie's props and costumes. Two loose .45 bullets were discovered on top of a prop cart, a third was in a bandolier worn by actor Jensen Ackles, a fourth was in a gun belt worn by Baldwin, and a fifth was found in a box of dummy ammunition with Gutierrez Reed's fingerprints on it."

Jesus that is terrifying. This is a shit show and hopefully is a wake up call.

The armorer is in a world of hurt if that's true. She didn't do her job competently if that's the case. What's her defense? She's in charge of the ammo. Live ammo in multiple places? The photos I saw didn't really give an visible distinction between prop and loaded.

I took a tour of a prop house in LA last year where they maintain the world's largest gun collection for the entertainment industry. They said they wouldn't answer any Rust questions but that none of their guns were involved.

The tour guide showed us their prop ammo and it's clearly and visibly not real ammo. it's machined and from a distance it look real but once up close, you can easily tell it's not.

Don't know which prop house was involved with Rust but prop ammo is easy to spot.

I read an article months after the event that covered more of the timeline of that day.

Apparently some of the crew and maybe even a cast member or two had gone off on their break to a different area and had been using one or more of the guns for target practice.
When they came back, the gun was supposed to be cleared & checked and put back wherever they stored the props.

Why real guns and ammunition were allowed anywhere on the site is a big question, but it does help explain how this could have happened.

https://www.thewrap.com/halyna...mmo-target-practice/

Well, get your Splenda packet ready to show to the jury, Alec.

Yeah, security protocols aren't worth following. Live rounds, dummy rounds, whatever. We got it under control, right? Don't be a pussy!

My feeling is that Baldwin will either be acquitted or found guilty of a lesser charge (possibly in a plea arrangement) but you can bet your bottom dollar that Mister Big Shit is crapping cinder blocks today.

What a shame, Alec, that we won't be getting any of your shit comments on gun control issues any more, or at least for a very long time.

Both charges are felonies. I'll take it.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
...

Apparently some of the crew and maybe even a cast member or two had gone off on their break to a different area and had been using one or more of the guns for target practice.
When they came back, the gun was supposed to be cleared & checked and put back wherever they stored the props.

Why real guns and ammunition were allowed anywhere on the site is a big question, but it does help explain how this could have happened.

...

Posted above

quote:

Contrary to widespread online gossip, investigators found no evidence that other crew members were taking the prop weapons on Rust and loading them with real bullets for target practice on the desert set.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
"In addition to the bullet that killed Hutchins, investigators found five additional live rounds of ammunition mingled among the movie's props and costumes. Two loose .45 bullets were discovered on top of a prop cart, a third was in a bandolier worn by actor Jensen Ackles, a fourth was in a gun belt worn by Baldwin, and a fifth was found in a box of dummy ammunition with Gutierrez Reed's fingerprints on it."

Jesus that is terrifying. This is a shit show and hopefully is a wake up call.

That's why you hire the right people for every position. If any of our "high profile" membership here were the armorer, this would have been much less likely to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:


Why real guns and ammunition were allowed anywhere on the site is a big question, but it does help explain how this could have happened.

Forgetting the ammunition, "real" guns are typically always used, no?

Real firearms are commonly used on sets, though not always. Sometimes they're non-functional or semi-functional replicas. I don't have a problem with real guns as long as all safety protocols are observed, but of course that didn't happen here.

This entire incident plays like a movie from beginning to now.

Real firearms on a movie set, live rounds littered among the actors props, people in positions of responsibility with questionable backgrounds. Is this an episode from NCIS LA, Hawaii 5-0, Blue Bloods?

Perhaps Scoobie-Doo? Are they going to pull a mask off Baldwin and find out he's really the cranky old property owner the set was built on?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:


Why real guns and ammunition were allowed anywhere on the site is a big question, but it does help explain how this could have happened.

Forgetting the ammunition, "real" guns are typically always used, no?

Stars and points of focus in a movie will get a real gun, or a converted blank firing one. Extras in a movie typically get airsoft or rubber molded guns, and pretend to shoot on set. And blank firing guns are usually for semi and full auto guns to ensure the action cycles when the blank goes off. Guns like revolvers and lever guns that don't need recoil or gas pressure to cycle, well it did seem silly to convert to blanks only when common sense says don't let live ammo anywhere near the set unless a scene specifically calls for it.

IMFDB is a great place to check out movie firearms and see how they adapt guns into movies.