This entire incident plays like a movie from beginning to now.

Real firearms on a movie set, live rounds littered among the actors props, people in positions of responsibility with questionable backgrounds. Is this an episode from NCIS LA, Hawaii 5-0, Blue Bloods?

Perhaps Scoobie-Doo? Are they going to pull a mask off Baldwin and find out he's really the cranky old property owner the set was built on?

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by 220-9er:


Why real guns and ammunition were allowed anywhere on the site is a big question, but it does help explain how this could have happened.

Forgetting the ammunition, "real" guns are typically always used, no?

Stars and points of focus in a movie will get a real gun, or a converted blank firing one. Extras in a movie typically get airsoft or rubber molded guns, and pretend to shoot on set. And blank firing guns are usually for semi and full auto guns to ensure the action cycles when the blank goes off. Guns like revolvers and lever guns that don't need recoil or gas pressure to cycle, well it did seem silly to convert to blanks only when common sense says don't let live ammo anywhere near the set unless a scene specifically calls for it.

IMFDB is a great place to check out movie firearms and see how they adapt guns into movies.

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Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

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Contrary to widespread online gossip, investigators found no evidence that other crew members were taking the prop weapons on Rust and loading them with real bullets for target practice on the desert set.

I am now especially interested in the statement that there was no evidence that employees had used the gun for live fire shooting. Until then I had been willing to bet a couple of nickels that that’s how live ammunition got into the gun. I.e., the gun was shot, left loaded, not checked, unintentional bang.

But if live ammunition was found in several diverse locations, including in a bandolier and gun belt, how and why did it get there? I’m finally willing to at least wonder if it was someone’s deliberate action for some reason.

I was an extra on a movie set, playing FBI SWAT. In the course of shooting I was issued an M-16,an MP-5, and an 870 Remington. All were real firearms. The MP-5 and M-16 may have had the firing pins removed, I don’t know. For one scene I was given 3 rounds of blank 12 gauge shells, which I fired during the climactic end of the movie scene at the roadblock (remake of Vanishing Point with Viggo Mortenson).

During my prop house tour we talked about the ammo.

The guns are real from the manufacturer and are modified as necessary. The ammo is blanks and comes in various "strengths" depending on the environment.

For overnight shooting with local noise restrictions they might use 1/4 power blanks or even 1/2. For scenes with horses there is no powder at all because it spooks the horses. There is a charge to give the cameras the look that the public wants to see but the sound is dubbed in later.

Blanks are common but there are various charges too. It was rather interesting.

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Originally posted by jhe888:

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Originally posted by ElToro:
I strongly suspect...

…are you speculating?

Or suspeculating?

The "court tv" show today said baldwin will also be charged with "firearm enhancement".

I don't know if that is true,but hopefully it's true.

"Firearm Enhancement" has a mandatory 5 year sentence.

I just want to know how things got so sloppy on that set that there were live rounds, not just in one spot under lock and key, but seemingly scattered about everywhere. Just having knowledge it was going on makes everyone culpable of negligence. I REALLY want to have Baldwin lie about that particular knowledge (preferably under oath) and have one of the lower staff rat his ass out.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
I just want to know how things got so sloppy on that set that there were live rounds, not just in one spot under lock and key, but seemingly scattered about everywhere.

It's almost like an episode of Matlock or Murder, She Wrote.

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Originally posted by Greymann:
The "court tv" show today said baldwin will also be charged with "firearm enhancement".

I don't know if that is true,but hopefully it's true.

"Firearm Enhancement" has a mandatory 5 year sentence.

It's true. Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed each face two counts of involuntary manslaughter so that a jury can decide which specific count may be more appropriate, just manslaughter or manslaughter with enhancement, the latter involving a mandatory 5 year jail sentence (they would each be convicted of just one of those counts).

The following quote from the DA is exactly what I've been waiting to hear...

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“And then they somehow got loaded into a gun, handed off to Alec Baldwin; he didn’t check it, he didn’t do any of the things that he was supposed to do to make sure that he was safe or that anyone around him was safe. And then he pointed the gun at Halyna Hutchins and he pulled the trigger.”

CNN

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
I just want to know how things got so sloppy on that set that there were live rounds, not just in one spot under lock and key, but seemingly scattered about everywhere.

Watch the coverage of this case and trial, if there is one, and all will be revealed. In the meantime, speculating is probably worse than useless. There is an almost unlimited number of ways people can devise to screw anything up.

Jeez, I better not use my Sub2000 for personal defense, it has a whole slew of MCarbo enhancements.

I can hear the little girl testifying now.
Lawyer: How many times has this pistol in evidence magically fired all by itself without someone pulling the trigger ?

Little girl: well, never, guns don't do that.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
I just want to know how things got so sloppy on that set that there were live rounds, not just in one spot under lock and key, but seemingly scattered about everywhere. Just having knowledge it was going on makes everyone culpable of negligence. I REALLY want to have Baldwin lie about that particular knowledge (preferably under oath) and have one of the lower staff rat his ass out.

Having worked on movie and TV show sets it doesn’t surprise me at all that live rounds got mixed in with blanks and dummy rounds once live rounds were brought to the set in the first place.


I have never worked on a movie or TV show with any real firearms (and I’ve only worked on a few so I’m no expert) but I can’t imagine that there is any reason to have live ammunition at all. That seems like the real mistake, bringing them to set in the first place.

I don’t know what all the safety protocols are for firearms on a set but they have to be pretty good. Think of all the movies and TV shows that are full of gunplay and this is the first shooting like this ever as far as I know. Brandon Lee’s death was an accident and not the same as this one.

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Originally posted by jhe888:

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Originally posted by ElToro:
I strongly suspect prosecutors offered Baldwin a deal and he is such an egomaniac he declined it, probably against his legal counsel guidance. So the prosecutor said ok, we shall see you in court then. Baldwin is staring at real time and a felony for life if convicted.

Do you have any direct evidence that this is actually true, or are you speculating?

Pure speculation, based only on reports The asst director took a deal.

Was talking to a retired LEO friend who has done extensive training with simunitions.

They arrive for training and have to lock all weapons and ammo in their trunks before entering.

They were searched before entering the facility to assure no weapons or ammo were missed

They had to load their own simunition mags to assure only proper ammo was loaded and they were responsible.


He wondered how, if that is the procedure for people who carry live ammo all day, how the heck does live ammo get on a movie set???

Those were live firearms, 1873 SAA chambered in 45 Long Colt. Not exactly a common cartridge like a 9mm, 40 S&W, or even 45ACP, or cheap for that matter, close to $1/round). Then to find them spread around the set and props????

That was either intentional or incompetence on a level that is rarely seen in public.

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Originally posted by Rightwire:
Was talking to a retired LEO friend who has done extensive training with simunitions.

They arrive for training and have to lock all weapons and ammo in their trunks before entering.

And any time you leave the training area to go to the bathroom, parking lot, etc and return, you get searched again. Twice

Someone with more skills than I should send this thread to the prospecting attorneys .

And the other half dozen Gun forums should do the same with their similar threads.

I wonder if Baldwins defense is going to claim someone sabotaged the set with live rounds randomly placed around where they could find their way into a weapon. Baldwin has already alluded to this being a possibility. It would be hard to disprove I imagine and there were the disgruntled crew members who had just previous walked off and quit.