One crew member dies, another hospitalized after Alec Baldwin shoots two people on set of his film

Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888

posted

quote:
Originally posted by ggile:
Blacks Law Dictionary defines homocide as: The killing of one human being by the act, procurement, or omission of another.

It also defines accident as: An unforeseeable and unexpected turn of events that causes loss in value, injury, and increased liabilities. The event is not deliberately caused and is not inevitable.

Granted there can be case law that can alter those definitions to some degree.

The prosecutor has the option of filing criminal charges, but I suspect that based on the coroners determination that it was an accident that the prosecutor will not file any charges and leave it to the civil courts.

Blacks is handy, but it is the definitions in the New Mexico criminal code that matter.

The question is, does this fit into some negligent homicide crime (or something similar) in NM? It is even possible that it meets the definition of some kind of homicide with a recklessness mens rea (mental state), which could be punished even more harshly that a negligence crime. Someone needs to bust out the NM criminal code and see if this some form of criminal homicide.

The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.

Posts: 53412 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004

Ignored post by jhe888 posted

DaveL

Member

posted

Here's New Mexico's definition of involuntary manslaughter (the functional equivalent of criminally negligent homicide): The unlawful killing of a human being without malice committed ... in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death ... without due caution and circumspection. This does not seem like stretch.

Posts: 1014 | Location: Tampa | Registered: July 27, 2010

Ignored post by DaveL posted

Shaql

Member

posted

Here's hoping the family goes after him in civil court then.

Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed.
Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists.
Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.

Posts: 6915 | Location: Atlanta | Registered: April 23, 2006

Ignored post by Shaql posted

DaveL

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Shaql:
Here's hoping the family goes after him in civil court then.

To be clear, the definition above is for the criminal charge of involuntary manslaughter (a 4th degree felony). In civil court all they have to prove is negligence to recover compensatory damages and recklessness for punitive damages. All of those are possible - it's not one or the other.

Posts: 1014 | Location: Tampa | Registered: July 27, 2010

Ignored post by DaveL posted

Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888

posted

quote:
Originally posted by DaveL:
Here's New Mexico's definition of involuntary manslaughter (the functional equivalent of criminally negligent homicide): The unlawful killing of a human being without malice committed ... in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death ... without due caution and circumspection. This does not seem like stretch.

Thanks for posting. Yes, it seems to fit these facts.

There may even be a recklessness standard criminal homicide statute that fits these facts.

The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.

Posts: 53412 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004

Ignored post by jhe888 posted

Fly-Sig

No More
Mr. Nice Guy

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I've often said we've got the best criminal justice system that money can buy.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. For average schlubs like us we should never expect justice.

Posts: 9855 | Location: On the mountain off the grid | Registered: February 25, 2002

Ignored post by Fly-Sig posted

BBMW

Big Stack

posted

The civil suit will be settled without ever going to court. The insurance company covering the production will pay the settlement.

quote:
Originally posted by DaveL:
quote:
Originally posted by Shaql:
Here's hoping the family goes after him in civil court then.

To be clear, the definition above is for the criminal charge of involuntary manslaughter (a 4th degree felony). In civil court all they have to prove is negligence to recover compensatory damages and recklessness for punitive damages. All of those are possible - it's not one or the other.

Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003

Ignored post by BBMW posted

Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888

posted

quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
The civil suit will be settled without ever going to court. The insurance company covering the production will pay the settlement.

So?

No one will force the plaintiffs to take a settlement offer. The plaintiffs will get an amount of money that they deem adequate.

Or, maybe they won't settle and will try their case and live with the decision made by a judge or jury. Most cases settle, though, because trials are costly, risky, and unpredictable.

And that is what insurance is for - you lay off your risk on someone else who pools risk and insures the chance you have a loss.

I know - you want someone (here Baldwin) to be punished. The civil system is not generally in the punishing business. That is what the criminal justice system is for.

The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.

Posts: 53412 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004

Ignored post by jhe888 posted

OKCGene

Dances With
Tornados

posted

^^^^^ I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to be that a man named Fred Goldman might disagree with that. Mr Goldman went after OJ Simpson after the body of his son Ron was found near the body of Nicole Brown Simpson in a crime "allegedly " committed by OJ.

I'm not going to take the time to list a lot of info about Fred Goldman, you can google it, you probably even remember the news of his successfully pursing and hounding OJ Simpson over the years.

That won't end until Mr Goldman and OJ the criminal are dead.
.

Posts: 12064 | Location: Near Hooker Oklahoma, closer to Slapout Oklahoma | Registered: October 26, 2009

Ignored post by OKCGene posted

sse

would not care
to elaborate
Picture of sse

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:

Mr. Baldwin was pointing a gun at cinematographer Halyna Hutchins when it went off on Oct. 21, killing Ms. Hutchins and wounding the director, Joel Souza.

~sigh~

Maybe somebody else pulled the trigger, but it didn't go off until a few minutes later...?? LOL

Posts: 3076 | Location: USA | Registered: June 12, 2008

Ignored post by sse posted

Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888

posted

quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
^^^^^ I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to be that a man named Fred Goldman might disagree with that. Mr Goldman went after OJ Simpson after the body of his son Ron was found near the body of Nicole Brown Simpson in a crime "allegedly " committed by OJ.

I'm not going to take the time to list a lot of info about Fred Goldman, you can google it, you probably even remember the news of his successfully pursing and hounding OJ Simpson over the years.

That won't end until Mr Goldman and OJ the criminal are dead.
.

Goldman is using the civil system to the extent he can to hound Simpson, and I can't blame him.

But that doesn't change the fact that is not what the civil justice system is for. It is designed to get the victims of civil wrongs monetary compensation, and sometimes to force people to do or stop doing things.

Goldman is using a tool not designed for the purpose because it is all he has got.

The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.

Posts: 53412 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004

Ignored post by jhe888 posted

OKCGene

Dances With
Tornados

posted

^^^^. Very interesting, thanks.
.

Posts: 12064 | Location: Near Hooker Oklahoma, closer to Slapout Oklahoma | Registered: October 26, 2009

Ignored post by OKCGene posted

IrishWind

They're after my Lucky Charms!
Picture of IrishWind

posted

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by DaveL:
Here's New Mexico's definition of involuntary manslaughter (the functional equivalent of criminally negligent homicide): The unlawful killing of a human being without malice committed ... in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death ... without due caution and circumspection. This does not seem like stretch.

Thanks for posting. Yes, it seems to fit these facts.

There may even be a recklessness standard criminal homicide statute that fits these facts.

From the moment the story broke this seemed like it was an accident. I have yet to hear the Alec intended to shoot the director. I think the determination for the DA (not having the NM statues in front of me) will be if it was a simple negligent homicide or will it get punched up due to extreme negligence/depraved indifference. Hiring an unqualified armorer and allowing people to screw around with live ammo on set will be an issue on liability.

Lord, your ocean is so very large and my divos are so very f****d-up
Dirt Sailors Unite!

Posts: 25075 | Location: NoVa | Registered: May 06, 2003

Ignored post by IrishWind posted

sigmonkey

A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey

posted

As one who has made a living with the proper use of tools as a core imperative, I applaud Mr. Goldman's using a hammer to drive the screw...

_{"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!}

Posts: 44711 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008

Ignored post by sigmonkey posted

kkina

Lost

posted

Mr. Baldwin has now somehow managed to politicize this tragedy...

Alec Baldwin Feared Trump Supporters Would Kill Him After 'Rust' Shooting

ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."

Posts: 17223 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003

Ignored post by kkina posted

parabellum

Peace through
superior firepower

posted

It's too bad the woman he killed can't claim victimhood. Unlike this conceited asshole, she's an actual victim. And all thanks to Baldwin, but let's do feel sorry for him. He's ever so special. Everyone knows this, especialy Baldwin.

Posts: 110047 | Registered: January 20, 2000

Ignored post by parabellum posted

kkina

Lost

posted

Somehow I do feel safer...

Alec Baldwin says he won’t use real guns again

ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."

Posts: 17223 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003

Ignored post by kkina posted

parabellum

Peace through
superior firepower

posted

^^ “Every day of my life I think about that.”

Now that is justice.

Posts: 110047 | Registered: January 20, 2000

Ignored post by parabellum posted

Patrick-SP2022

On the wrong side of
the Mobius strip
Picture of Patrick-SP2022

posted

quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
Mr. Baldwin has now somehow managed to politicize this tragedy...

Alec Baldwin Feared Trump Supporters Would Kill Him After 'Rust' Shooting

From the linked article:

quote:
In a statement to Newsweek following the release of the FBI report, Baldwin's lawyer said that the findings had been "misconstrued" and that the "critical report is the one from the medical examiner, who concluded that this was a tragic accident."

"The gun fired in testing only one time—without having to pull the trigger—when the hammer was pulled back and the gun broke in two different places. The FBI was unable to fire the gun in any prior test, even when pulling the trigger because it was in such poor condition," Baldwin's lawyer, Luke Nikas, said.

Has anyone actually seen the FBI forensic report?

Posts: 4175 | Location: Texas | Registered: April 16, 2012

Ignored post by Patrick-SP2022 posted