What am I missing? I simply can not think of ANY reason for real ammunition to be on a movie set.

Other reports say the one fired shot struck Hutchins in the chest, passing through her, and continued on striking Souza.


https://www.the-sun.com/entert...s-blaming-colleague/

While on the 911 call, the script supervisor then appears to speak to someone else with her as she begins "placing the blame" of the loaded gun on another crew member.

Alec Baldwin accidentally shoots crew member dead on set as director left 'critical'
She said: "he's supposed to check the guns, he's responsible," before the operator then asks more questions.

A man then takes over the call from the film set - and tells the operator where both people are alert and says that a medic is tending to them.

The gun Alec Baldwin fired in the fatal shooting on the Rust movie set was handed to the actor loaded with a live round, according to a warrant from the ongoing police investigation.

The warrant says that an assistant director handed the gun to the actor and told him that it was "cold" before he fired it, fatally striking cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza on Thursday.

The warrant, obtained by the Associated Press, also says that the assistant director was not aware that the gun was loaded.

The gun that was fired was one of three laid on a cart by the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.

Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart, believing it was unloaded, and brought it inside to Alec, who was filming a scene, the warrant says.

The day before the deadly incident, a large number of people in the camera department resigned over reasons including an apparent lack of safety protocols, a member of the camera crew who quit the production told ABC News.

On a day prior to Thursday's fatal shooting, there were two accidental discharges within 10 minutes, according to the former crew member.

The issue of gun safety had been brought up by the camera crew and allegedly brushed off repeatedly by producers, said the person, who had already left the set before the fatal shooting occurred.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/crew...ec/story?id=80715740

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https://avatarhost.files.wordp...-halyna-hutchins.png

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It doesn't matter how it turns out. Usually with these coverups, the truth comes out so long after the incident in question, people don't even notice.

Based only on the limited information currently available, I would expect Baldwin to skate on any potential homicide charges, the armorer will likely take the fall for that. But I would expect all manner of wrongful death and negligence charges to stick to him, and perhaps others as well.

Looking past the details of this tragedy for a moment, I'm betting that Alec Baldwin's family and friends will stand by him, but the rest of Hollywood will slowly turn their backs on him.

I'm betting that he will never get liability insurance or bank financing for another movie or TV project again, and even in the unlikely event that he did, given both the reported conditions on the set of this movie, and his dismissing the union crew and bringing in a non-union one, and the needless tragic death of a member of his production team, that he will never get another movie crew or actors to work on any production that he is involved with.

He will become persona non grata in Hollywood after the media coverage and lawsuits are settled. Slowly sinking from the public eye, he will have plenty of time to write his memoir with contemplation, remorse, and virtue signalling.

The larger question that I have regarding Hollywood, is whether there will be a backlash and a swing away from any productions that involve firearms and shooting (unlikely, I think) or will there be a push for even stricter set rules when the story includes these? Will it be mandatory to have union armorers?

I'm one of those rare people that stays until the end of the credits and usually one of the last to leave the theater. (at least on well made movies with good storylines, good acting, beautiful locations etc..)

Watching the credits, one of the several things I watch for is who the armorer was, and I always wonder how they became an armorer. Were they an apprentice? Military or law enforcement? Are there tests, certifications, licenses, or just word of mouth and recommendations?

Will armorers working on movie sets see increased regulation by the government? Or perhaps from unions? Will there be age requirements? Will there be a push to limit the types of guns, magazines, calibers that can be used on Hollywood productions? Will there be mandatory background checks, not only on armorers, but on any set member or actor that handles a gun on set? Will there be a push by Hollywood for the ATF to increase their regulatory oversight on themselves?

After tragic shootings in the real world the Left pours out its anti-gun rhetoric.. will they also clamor for restrictions and bans on their own industry, or does virtue signalling have limitations when it affects their own rice bowls?

“ The gun that was fired was one of three laid on a cart by the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.”

They’re in a tough spot. Do they lay the blame on a famous liberal white male, or on an incompetent female “armorer”?

A few thoughts:

Putting the adjective “prop” in front of the noun “gun” doesn’t change the gun other than to indicate the gun was used as a prop. IE: the prop sled in Citizen Kane was a real sled.

In the firearms community, is there any point where it’s ok for a person to accept a firearm from another person and also accept the other person’s word that the firearm is not loaded? Why should an actor get a pass on this?

He accepted the firearm. He relied on someone else’s word and failed to verify the gun was unloaded for himself. He pointed the gun at another human being. He pulled the trigger. The gun functioned as intended and did not misfire. Stories are coming out about unsafe gun handling on the set, which if true, further point to other actions of his that caused this event to occur.

Anyone saying Alec "Anti-Gun" Baldwin isn't responsible, it was the prop master, here is a hot take for you:

quote:

The same people defending a famous actor for shooting two people and killing one bc "it's not his job to check "prop" guns", are also the ones saying you should be charged with murder if someone steals your gun and kills people with it.

@BeardedTexan69 on the Twitter

Alec Baldwin is responsible. He was the final link in the safety chain on a film set using firearms where he is a producer. End of Story.

I have a friend that was working on another film about 3 miles away on the same "ranch". He responded to my text checking on him that he was okay and not on that set. The info he told me confirms some of the posts in this thread but also there are some differences. Of course the story always changes as it is passed on but it was pretty obvious from the parts that were similar that there were definitely safety issues that the crews had noted. He did confirm there had been several negligent discharges in the last couple of days on the set according to the crew. Not good.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
I stand by what I said, movie or no movie.

Principles are often strongest among people who don’t have to deal with reality and can therefore live in unrealistic fantasy realms.

I will repeat my question about how depicting things like someone’s being shot or having a gun pointed at them is possible without pointing a gun at them—?

As for law enforcement accidents, it’s generally recognized that the most realistic, and therefore most valuable training involving firearms is the use of real guns that fire marking projectiles (e.g., Simunitions). Can you explain how that training can be conducted without real firearms being pointed at people whom the shooters don’t intend to kill?

To also reiterate, such activities demand the most stringent safety measures be followed (other than “don’t point”), and they almost always are. The fact that this one is national news rather than any one of countless intentional murders by gunfire that occur in this country every day demonstrates such incidents’ extreme rarity.

The same is true of accidents that occur in law enforcement training.

I read of LEOs dying during physical training and other exertions every few days as compared to hardly ever from accidental firearms discharges. Should they have and follow a “never break a sweat” rule? Even more LEOs are killed in vehicle accidents. Most agencies have rules limiting what their officers can do in vehicle pursuits or when responding to calls, but accidents still occur, sometimes with tragic results. How about putting governors on cars so they can’t go faster than 25 mph? That would no doubt reduce vehicle related fatalities.

And for the benefit of those with deficient reading comprehension skills and who insert their own interpretations into the statements of others, none of this is intended to absolve the people responsible for this tragedy of their blame. Again: Such activities involving firearms demand that the most stringent safety measures be followed. They obviously weren’t this time, as the consequences demonstrated.

News reports are that the armorer was Hannah Reed, the daughter of Thell Reed.

Thell Reed is one of the original five shooting masters from the Southwest Pistol Shooting League. The other four were Eldon Carl, Ray Chapman, James Weaver and Jeff Cooper.

Alec Baldwin has now killed more people than the NRA.

That thing that used to be Bruce Jenner killed an innocent woman with a car and nothing ever happened to him over it.

https://en.mogaznews.com/World...charge-of-guns-.html

The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.

'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.

She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father to get over the fear.

It comes as film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.

A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.

'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.

Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.

Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.

The movie, set in 1880's Kansas, stars Baldwin as the infamous outlaw Harland Rust, whose grandson is sentenced to hang for an accidental murder.

Fatal gun in movie shooting was vintage Colt revolver

The warrant also said that a single bullet struck Hutchins in the chest, and then struck director Joel Souza in the shoulder as he was standing behind her, injuring him, suggesting the bullet traveled all the way through Hutchins' body.

After the shooting, the armorer took possession of the gun and a spent casing, which were turned over to police, along with other prop guns and ammunition used on the set.

"Is the weapon clear? Did you check it?" If not, you go back to square 1 and start all over again. After negligent discharges on the set, the armor need to either 1) Be fired or 2) stop production and review all safety procedures.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
News reports are that the armorer was Hannah Reed, the daughter of Thell Reed.

Thell Reed is one of the original five shooting masters from the Southwest Pistol Shooting League. The other four were Eldon Carl, Ray Chapman, James Weaver and Jeff Cooper.

He sounds very much experienced and qualified to handle firearms. She, just from her own words, frankly doesn't. If there is anyone on set who shouldn't be nervous around guns or not confident around them, it's the armorer. No?

**********************



Woman who handled weapons on Alec Baldwin set ‘nervous’ about ability

The Hollywood armorer who tended to the deadly weapon used by Alec Baldwin on the set of “Rust” had expressed doubts about her skills and ability to load prop guns.

“You know, I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready … but, doing it, like, it went really smoothly,” Hannah Reed said last month in the Voices of the West podcast.

Reed, whose dad is well known Hollywood armorer Thell Reed, made the podcast appearance while working on the set of the Nicholas Cage movie “The Old Way.” That production just weeks ago marked her first time as a head armorer.

She was working this past week with Baldwin on “Rust” in New Mexico when the longtime actor killed director of photography Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza using a prop weapon.

Loading prop guns was “the scariest” part of the process, Reed said, saying her dad helped show her how.

Her father, Thell Reed, is a legendary armorer in Hollywood circles who got his start from Gene Autry, according to his IMDB profile.

“Before long, Hollywood came looking for Thell to share his skills and coach the biggest names in the business,” the profile reads. He soon worked on TV shows and movies such as Gunsmoke, LA Confidential, Tombstone and Flags of Our Fathers.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/...rvous-about-ability/

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father to get over the fear.

Literally astonishing.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I always wonder how they became an armorer. Were they an apprentice? Military or law enforcement? Are there tests, certifications, licenses, or just word of mouth and recommendations?

Evidently not too hard if one has the right father.

All the money they spend on making a movie and they "have" to use a real gun because, I guess they can't spend a few bucks to have something made that doesn't have the ability to kill someone. Surely a real "prop" gun could be created can't it? With all the rounds fired I can't remember how many people were killed on a John Wick film set. Oh, I remember now, none.

Previous firearm discharges on that set? Live ammunition or blanks?

This whole thing makes me wonder; with all of the high-tech methods available to film makers, why not use a disabled gun (firing pin removed?) for filming, and add the "bang" and other effects in post-processing?

Good question V-Tail.

CGI costs a lot of $$$$$$$$$. Hiring a COMPETENT armorer and DOING IT RIGHT is way cheaper. Just have to get that "DOING IT RIGHT" part down pat...

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Previous firearm discharges on that set? Live ammunition or blanks?

Does it matter? Brandon Lee was killed by a movie “blank”.

Here a gun went bang when gun should have gone click. Three times in one morning.

Then, inexplicably, a gun goes bang and the projectile goes through one person and into another.

There is plenty of negligence to go around.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
why not use a disabled gun (firing pin removed?) for filming, and add the "bang" and other effects in post-processing?

That’s a question I’m interested in as well because I know nothing about such capabilities.
To the extent they exist, perhaps they’re not that common and cheap for a low budget operation.

I will point out, though, that even when dummy guns are supposed to be used, sometimes things get switched and real ones substituted. Back in the day when stage magicians performed “bullet catching” tricks, at least one was killed for that reason. Reportedly Harry Houdini refused to perform the trick because it was so dangerous for that reason.