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When ideology results in people dying and property being destroyed Mad
We'll see what the next election brings and how many civil service employees are looking for new careers....

A State Official Refused To Release Water For West Maui Fires Until It Was Too Late
quote:
With wildfires ravaging West Maui on Aug. 8, a state water official delayed the release of water that landowners wanted to help protect their property from fires. The water standoff played out over much of the day and the water didn’t come until too late.

The dispute involved the Department of Land and Natural Resources’ water resource management division and West Maui Land Co., which manages agricultural and residential subdivisions in West Maui as well as Launiupoko Irrigation Co., Launiupoko Water Co., Olowalu Water Co. and Ha’iku Town Water Association.

DLNR delayed releasing water requested by West Maui Land Co. to help prevent the spread of fire, sources familiar with the situation said.

Specifically, according to accounts of four people with knowledge of the situation, M. Kaleo Manuel, a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner and DLNR’s deputy director for water resource management, initially balked at West Maui Land Co.’s requests for additional water to help prevent the fire from spreading to properties managed by the company.

According to the sources, Manuel wanted West Maui Land to get permission from a taro, or kalo, farm located downstream from the company’s property. Manuel eventually released water but not until after the fire had spread. It was not clear on Monday how much damage the fire did in the interim or whether homes were damaged.

Manuel declined to be interviewed for this story. DLNR’s communications office said in an email that it was supporting the state’s emergency communications response and “unable to facilitate your inquiry at this time.”

....

In 2022, two Maui senators, Gil Keith-Agaran and Lynne DeCoite, introduced a measure to push DLNR to allow fresh water to be used to fight fires and pointed to West Maui as being particularly vulnerable.

The bill noted that “in 2019, West Maui suffered from an active fire season in which wildfires scorched twenty-five thousand acres of land.” It would have required DLNR to “cooperate with the counties and reservoir owners to develop protocols and agreements for the use of reservoir waters for fire safety purposes.”

Specifically, the measure said, “The protocols and agreements shall address the emergency use of reservoir waters for prevention, control, and extinguishment of fires while taking into account the various competing uses of reservoir waters.”

The bill died without a hearing.

Request was made to divert water to fight Maui fire
quote:
A delay in state permission to use West Maui stream water may have led to hampering firefighters in their battle to save Lahaina town from last week’s horrific wildfire.

On the day after the fire, the West Maui Land Co. Inc. sent a letter to Deputy Director M. Kaleo Manuel of the Hawaii Commission on Water Resource Management, or CWRM, describing the events and communication problems that resulted in delaying the diversion of streams to fill reservoirs with water being made available to fight the fire.

Glenn Tremble, an executive with West Maui Land, declined to comment on his letter Tuesday, but a copy was obtained by the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

According to the letter, although the initial fire was contained at 9 a.m., there were reports of fallen power lines, fierce winds, outages and low reservoir levels, prompting the company to reach out to the commission to request approval to divert more water from streams so it could store as much water as possible for fire control.

Instead of approving the request, CWRM asked the company whether the Maui Fire Department had requested permission to dip into the reservoirs and directed it to first inquire with the downstream user to ensure that his loi and other uses would not be impacted by a temporary reduction of water supply.

Communications were spotty, the letter said, and the company had already tried unsuccessfully to contact the one downstream user.

....
 
Posts: 15149 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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Posts: 109805 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Oh. Well in that case, I'll gladly bury my family as a burnt offering sacrifice to their climate Gaia, mother of nature.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 29958 | Location: Norris Lake, TN | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
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I heard a lecture once about aircraft safety and causes of crashes.
The theme was the "Swiss cheese theory": disasters happen usually not because of one failure, but the "lining up" of numerous failures.
That appears to be the case here, with catastrophic consequences. HECO's failures; land use laws that leave land fallow with highly flammable vegetation; extraordinarily high winds; and now we hear lack of water to fight the fire. The last at least partly for Leftist political reasons.
Edited to add: They did not sound the alarm because "people would think it was a tsunami and go uphill into the fire". No, they're not stupid like you, asshole.

Link
quote:
The head of Maui's Emergency Management Agency resigned on Thursday night, citing 'health reasons'.

It comes a day after Chief Herman Andaya faced fierce backlash by saying he did not regret not activating warning sirens as the wildfire swept across the island.

Andaya said he opted to send out alerts via mobile devices, radio waves, television and the county's opt-in resident alert system - but not via siren.

Despite the claim the warning sirens could have saved hundreds of people, Andaya argued the systems are generally used for tsunami warnings and Hawaiians are trained to seek higher ground when they go off, which would have led them toward the blazing inferno.

It has since emerged that the official has a history of downplaying the importance of the island's siren systems.

A "perfect storm". Utterly infuriating. I'm livid with rage.

Who will pay for this? Who will be punished?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sjtill,


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Posts: 18566 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just saw a plea on the TV asking for donations for Maui.
Then it struck me that all the $$$ we sent to Ukraine would sure go a long way to help these people.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 16480 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since Manuel is such an enthusiast for Hawaiian culture and beliefs, he can offer himself up to be sacrificed, as that also common practice for idiots and violators. I'm sure there's more than a few volunteers from Maui who'd gladly club this guy.
 
Posts: 15149 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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The enlightened M. Kaleo Manual...
quote:
Let water connect us, and not divide us. Like we can share it, but it requires true conversations about equity.

Roll Eyes


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Trump 2024....Make America Great Again!
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Posts: 9587 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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M needs to go help boots on the ground identify the corpses his water sharing idiocy caused.
 
Posts: 3684 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: July 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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As have you all, I’ve been thinking about Hawaii. Yesterday, award-winning journalist and Twitter files pioneer Michael Shellenberger weighed in on the Maui disaster, assigning the blame to woke establishmentarians and their bizarre, deadly climate policies:



Michael’s article is a more thoughtful version of the same distrustful theories we’ve seen coming from on-the-ground Hawaiians, who all believe the government is responsible for the fires, not Mother Nature. Theories abound. Space lasers, aluminum nanoparticles, cops stopping people from leaving Lahaina, child traffickers, Hollywood celebrities, military arsonists, and even the mysterious missing trainload of fertilizer have been blamed. Among others.

Meanwhile, clueless corporate media is running with “climate change.” But it’s not working.

‘Climate change’ is the dumbest possible explanation for the Maui disaster. And on the other hand, I’m not ruling out any of the alternative theories. Who knows? But what is getting clearer and clearer is that the deep-blue state of Hawaii is looking pretty anti-establishment at this point, isn’t it?

You could say the island state of Hawaii has swallowed a great big red pill.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com...rue&utm_medium=email



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

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-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24782 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
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quote:
water standoff played out over much of the day and the water didn’t come until too late.

Sounds to me that they just burned out the white people.


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Posts: 34514 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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Again, there are A LOT of reasons for what happened. Bad land use decisions and poor emergency planning were tinder for this, and rooted in decades of decisions. Then there were natural conditions: drought, invasive vegatation and hurricane winds. Then, when the SHTF, there was a casade of problems: movement of too many people for a practical evacuation, downed lines, water, poor emergency advanced planning for FIRE specifically, the general "island" mindset, and failures to "see/hear" what was actually happening on the ground.

People in a position to do better made bad decisions and people died. It WAS NOT just this water guy. Some should 100% lose their jobs, maybe more than that depending on the results of this. BUT applying 20/20 hindsight to assess responsibility is not appropriate AT ALL. This is not a simple situation where simplified tweets can prognosticate what happened and why.

Don't make the same mistakes as the left, just as climate change wasn't the problem, it wasn't solely "the government's" failures either. Yes climate played a problem (drought, winds), but this was something decades of neglect and failure to plan/act on MANY levels.

And this is not just a Hawaii problem. Look, as I type this I'm about 45 miles as the crow flies from an active volcano, one of several in this area. I live on an active fault line. I live 30 miles from a base that regularly handles nuclear weapons (a metric fuckton of them). I guarantee you if any one of those disasters in waiting happen (just to name a few possible), things are going to get pearshaped super fast AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT BE THERE TO HELP ME(YOU). Those of you in hurricane/tornado alley, those of you near flamable forests, those of you near train tracks, etc bear witness to this event. Because, in our hearts, we don't think this (whatever "this" will happen) because it is a low probablity event. But people win the lottery all the time, and at some point somewhere will lose. And when it does, you had best be as prepared as possible.


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Posts: 2103 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
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quote:
‘Climate change’ is the dumbest possible explanation for the Maui disaster. And on the other hand,



And yet in a ironic way, Climate Change at least the movement, was part of the cause for the massive expansion of the fires and subsequent loss of life and property. Climate Change was in charge of the government and rules enacted, since the people in control of the resources are the ones who failed to provide services or change rules in order to reduce the risk of what happened were disciples of that train of thought.
 
Posts: 24554 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
‘Climate change’ is the dumbest possible explanation for the Maui disaster. And on the other hand,


You mean dumber than space lasers so the gov't could buy the land cheap and resell it?





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Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists.
Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.
 
Posts: 6912 | Location: Atlanta | Registered: April 23, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
I heard a lecture once about aircraft safety and causes of crashes.
The theme was the "Swiss cheese theory": disasters happen usually not because of one failure, but the "lining up" of numerous failures.
sjtill...we call it "a chain of events". Break one link in that chain and odds are you can likely mitigate the threat leading to total disaster.

quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Just saw a plea on the TV asking for donations for Maui.
Then it struck me that all the $$$ we sent to Ukraine would sure go a long way to help these people.



FJB
LGB
Mad Mad



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 11066 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Since Manuel is such an enthusiast for Hawaiian culture and beliefs, he can offer himself up to be sacrificed, as that also common practice for idiots and violators. I'm sure there's more than a few volunteers from Maui who'd gladly club this guy.


This popped up on my YT feed today so I watched it. Only a couple of minor “climate change” references, maybe only one. He does a pretty good job at breaking this all down. The one thing, I thought of, that he mentioned, was “building codes” in Lahaina and I said immediately “corsair will have a field day with this” because as we both know, Lahaina and current building code is about like oil and water going together. I could say the same thing about a ton of buildings in Wailuku, Kahului. A ton of out of date buildings all over the place.

https://youtu.be/xVID8jENuzQ

The nasty combo meal:
3rd world infrastructure.
Poorly maintained, everything out of date, especially the grid. IE pole city.

Heavy winds from a Hurricane to the South.

Once, fruit and sugarcane plantations, well maintained, all over the island, replaced with invasive grass as local politics and cost of living drove this business out when corporations decided they could grow their sugarcane and pineapple in other countries with less costly labor and overall cost.

Cow farmers introducing non native grass to feed their herds, which spread to the previous plantations of fruit and sugarcane. Said grass is very fire prone.

State and county water management’s epic failure to release needed water to stop fires.

State and county emergency response management’s lack of action to fire off 80 sirens present on the island that alert human beings if there is a massive fucking problem.

Way, out of date, building codes all throughout Lahaina.

Lack of road management, referenced the one way in and one way out of Lahaina which we know is a problem all over the island for road transport.



What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone
 
Posts: 13076 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What would it have taken to "release the water " ? Open or close some valves ? Start some pumps ? It's hard to believe nobody got pissed off enough to go vigilante on these bureaucrats and take matters into their own hands . When everything you own is going up in flames and people are dying , you sometimes get a little impulsive .
And then there's that whole " Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission " thing .
 
Posts: 4395 | Location: Down in Louisiana . | Registered: February 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
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Maui Emergency Chief resigns.

quote:
The head of Maui’s Emergency Management Agency stepped down Thursday — just one day after he defended his controversial decision not to activate the island-wide alarm system as devastating wildfires ripped across the island.

Chief Herman Andaya handed in his resignation, citing “health reasons,” according to Mayor Richard Bissen.

His departure is effective immediately, meaning the top spot for the emergency department will be vacant as the decimated island grapples with the aftermath of the inferno that killed at least 111 people....

... “Even if we sounded the siren, we would not have saved those people out there on the mountainside,” Andaya said.

He also defended his professional record, telling reporters he was thoroughly vetted and heavily trained before taking the lead role in 2017...

...Andaya does not, however, have any direct experience in emergency management other than coordinating with the agency during his tenure in the housing department and as a staffer in the mayor’s cabinet.


Video of the idiot in the link.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/...ding-siren-decision/



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 17480 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Health reasons"

Yeah, trying to avoid getting your ass kicked so hard that you wear your butt cheeks for a collar could be considered a health reason.

I'm beyond angry about all of this.

Mismanagement, leftist horseshit about "equity" while letting people burn to death, utter and total incompetency and stupidity- HUMAN ERROR all the way, and these fucks blame "climate change". Mad

Some of these people need to go to jail for a very long time. Some of them deserve the ultimate penalty.
 
Posts: 109805 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shaman
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Somebody needs go to prison over this. Mad





He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
 
Posts: 39922 | Location: Atop the cockatoo tree | Registered: July 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd say prison is too good for these sunsabitches... Mad Mad

My airline is doing what it can to fill B777's with emergency relief goods and get them there. I'd love to fly some of those humanitarian missions, but I'm not B777 rated/qualified.



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 11066 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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