quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Island life, whether its PR, Hawaii, Guam or USVI is a double-edged sword or, has two-sides. All those locations have established tourism industries but, they're barely held together by the local community which is entirely dependent on the outside world. Not unusual to see abject poverty at the swap meets or, in the tree-line at some of the lesser known beaches where entire families are living under a pop-up tent with various tarps strung about. I've got family on Oahu and they all talk about retiring to the mainland once they're of age; while island life for them is enjoyable, the common complaint is shit just doesn't get done and I'm over it. Island time is a no-shit, barrier excuse that everyone uses for their lack completing tasks. Its not a secret that in hot/humid areas of the world, the tempo of life is much slower than other latitudes, however the 'island time' excuse has been bent to fit a general malaise, poor work ethic, willful ignorance and largely an excuse for the unskilled.

100%. Before the pandemic I was pondering moving there. I mean my close people, that’s where they live. I figured out a way to make it work. House, new built was going to be $650k. I found a storage unit on Big Island to park one of my motorcycles (would sell the other two). Big enough to store tools, spare tires, oil, my suit, helmet, gear, etc, and even enough room to sleep in there overnight. It was going to be $60 a month.

But then I thought about island time. Or when a vehicle needed service or I needed a new vehicle and I had no choice living there. I mean you can buy it on Oahu and have it shipped over and can even ship something from the mainland but in general, everything is a PITA. And while the neighborhood would have been new, small house, neighbors close and every neighbor would have 6 people living there, and 5-6 cars parked in the driveway, in the street and in front of my house. And then there is the infrastructure, internet outages (internet required for me to work) but ultimately it was the island time thing, and all the tourists that got me to chalk the entire plan and idea. And I was way down the rabbit hole. The only way I could enjoy it would be to buy land on the Hana side, pay out the ass for it too, then have to deal with being the Haole with locals living all around me, pissed that I’m there on their side of the island. I could have bought a condo for $350k but the HOA monthly would have 1k by itself. And they restrict noise past 9pm in many complexes to the point the complex clothes washer/dryers are shut off at 9pm to prevent anyone and everyone from doing anything at night. My friend’s complex in Kihei you aren’t so much as allowed to move a car past 10pm, and the haggard ass retirees that sit on the board heavily enforce the shit.

Stack upon stack of stuff I couldn’t deal with living there. So I’m happy to visit. My friend works, well I don’t want to go to deep into it. Let’s say he works at a complex that has retirees, and people that rent units (tourists). He works like it’s the mainland, handles his business, always but everyone else, island time. They lie, make excuses, punt, blah, and like you said it’s like that everywhere. When there I live local style and I get annoyed with the traffic and getting my groceries. There will be 3 people in line at a register at Foodland and it’s 30 minutes to get through the line. Nothing is run with any efficiency or expediency unless it’s a tourist thing trying to shuffle blu hairs through on their vacays. Even when I’m there I’m doing everything I can to avoid tourists as they drive me insane and I’m a tourist! I go to local spot beaches with locals to snorkel, to surf, buy all my food at Costco like a local, stay local, etc, etc. I couldn’t deal with it either. Once I figured that out I bought rural land in the mountains here on the mainland. Home away from home is the 808 though. But I only go in the winter when kids are in school. I wouldn’t go in the summer if the shit was free and believe me my flights and stay are free. Costco is the same $ I spend here at home. I don’t drive incessantly when I’m there so the gas price difference is peanuts. My only expenses are kenneling my k9 and the rental car and I rent from a local spot there and it’s always a 10-25 year old hoopty. It’s to the point now tourists stop me and ask for directions or this and that and they think I live there. I do love to visit though. Not just not in the fucking summer anymore, fuck that. Too many Haoles.

They never miss an opportunity to stick their ignorant views into a tragedy.

Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire

I visited Hawaii and am never going back. The folks on the Big Island were nice. The tourist industry was only interested in sucking money out of your wallet. The Rent A car place rented our car to someone else and we had to take a van to the hotel. A rental car showed up two days later. It was all about the money. Honolulu really sucked. The North shore was ok.
In contrast I enjoyed the Virgin Islands.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They never miss an opportunity to stick their ignorant views into a tragedy.

Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire

In a previous post I said I would refrain from commenting about the competency of the Hawaiian govt. until after the dust settles. Your post is pretty much what I expected from them. We'll see what comes out in the future but I expect more, much more, of what you just posted Para.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They never miss an opportunity to stick their ignorant views into a tragedy.

Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire

Yeah global warming caused the Tongan Volcano to erupt

This was not caused by global warming. Doesn’t surprise me though. Political up a tragedy.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They never miss an opportunity to stick their ignorant views into a tragedy.

Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire

There were lots, I hazard to say hundreds of people living out of their cars and vans, encampments along the beach road into Lahaina. They were cooking over fires every time I drove by. I hope not, but I suspect one could have been the the cause. Especially since everything but has been refered to and 85% of the wildfires are man caused

Waiting the for criticism of the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency for their lack of alerts and the non-usage of the siren system which every local knows about. Even with power down, they should've been able to get an SMS alert out as I don't believe the cell towers above Lahaina were damaged.


...and should I hold my breath to hear what the Hawaiian sovereignty types are going to weigh-in? Is Jason Momoa going to be the face of the movement to not rebuild Lahaina since they are against all that happened in the 19th century and tourism of the 20th century?

What is he going to say next, we can't put a lot of water on the fire as it might capsize or sink the island?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They never miss an opportunity to stick their ignorant views into a tragedy.

Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire

It just feeds their “anyone who disagrees is EVIL” narrative to shut down and vilify dissent towards the agenda.

Some years ago, the cops in Hawaii (mainly Honolulu,IIRC) were so broke that they were driving their personal cars on patrol. They were actively soliciting for donations to help them out. At the time I wondered where all that tourist money went.

I'll repeat: I lived on Maui about 7 years, 5 of those practicing cardiology at the Kaiser clinic and Maui Memorial Hospital in Wailuku, central Maui. My wife and I were members of the Tea Party Maui, so we were involved with local as well as state and national politics there.

Maui used to be run by practical businessmen while we were there: Alan Arakawa as mayor, Mike White as County Council member in charge of finance. HC&S (Hawaii Commercial and Sugar) was still raising cane (!) and milling it in the sugar mill. With 900 employees, HC&S had a large impact on Maui's economy. More than that, they had a firefighting unit with trained firefighters and large equipment, because they burned the fields after harvesting (newcomers hated the smoke and the "Maui snow", but it was part of life on Maui. But the firefighters would also help the county and state firefighters whenever there was a major fire. There was also other agriculture: pineapple and coffee especially.

When HC&S closed their operations, the green slopes of Haleakala turned brown without the water brought from East Maui for the sugar cane. It's ugly, and it's also a setup for uncontrolled fires.

The dry leeward slopes of Maui (Lahaina, lower slopes of Haleakala, Wailea) are not lush and green. They are largely covered with non-native invasive plants, particularly kiawe, which is like mesquite. It's used for firewood. I understand there were no large firebrakes, which would contribute to setting up the Lahaina side for an uncontrollable wildfire.

I must also say that public services tend to be poorly run. I know that people who worked for the Public Works Department would use the county workers to landscape their own yards, for example. I won't speak for other services as I have no personal knowledge. But in general, the Hawaii Time attitude of most locals likely contributes to poor functioning of public services.

The political situation has changed since we left. A leftist coalition called Ohana now runs the county council. They are anti-business, anti-tourist. Many businesses closed permanently during the pandemic lockdowns, and that has contributed I believe to the leftist shift in the political scene. It does not bode well for the future economic health of Maui.

I appreciate Prefontaine's comments above.

Very sad. Lahaina was where the missus and I spent our honeymoon nearly 40 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:

quote:

Originally posted by PR64:
Is that the banyon tree in the last pic above?

NYT article says it’s standing and could be ok.

Yes, I'm now seeing reports that it, although scorched, may still be alive and can recover.

That thing is huge, btw, with 16 major trunks.

Here is a before and after pic of of a section of Lahaina.





Last night, I spoke to one of my wife's cousins on Oahu, he's in contact with an old buddy on Maui who works with one of the medical groups on the island, he is stationed at one of the large relief centers right now. His take- it seems the general consensus among the survivors is that the fire was so intense, it took literally minutes, less than a half hour, to burn the whole town into a crisp. There is fear that many citizens did not make it out alive in that short amount of time.

He said there is also a feeling of great anger from certain natives, they think that the fire was a tool by govt. and huge corporations to drive them out, making the area finally accessible to entities that want to turn Lahaina into Waikiki. It seems people are resigned to the fact that Lahaina of old will never return.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
He said there is also a feeling of great anger from certain natives, they think that the fire was a tool by govt. and huge corporations to drive them out, making the area finally accessible to entities that want to turn Lahaina into Waikiki. It seems people are resigned to the fact that Lahaina of old will never return.

...and here we go, the Hawaiian Sovereignty Types are getting the rumor mill started.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oddball:
...and here we go, the Hawaiian Sovereignty Types are getting the rumor mill started.

Yeah a few years back I the "Defend Hawaii" bumper sticker was pretty prevalent. I always wondered defend Hawaii from what?

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
He said there is also a feeling of great anger from certain natives, they think that the fire was a tool by govt. and huge corporations to drive them out, making the area finally accessible to entities that want to turn Lahaina into Waikiki. It seems people are resigned to the fact that Lahaina of old will never return.

...and here we go, the Hawaiian Sovereignty Types are getting the rumor mill started.

You knew it was coming if you know the place well and know how (not all of them) the people are there and I know you do . It’s such a symbiotic relationship there. The people I know there that get into exactly what you said work in the tourism field one way or the other and if they didn’t have that job they’d have to live on the mainland. It’s very interesting to listen to. They want all the “rich” people to leave, all the tourism to leave (they wouldn’t have a job anymore) and do what, I have no idea.

It seems it is inevitable that significant events breed conspiracy theories.

My wife & I were watching some YouTube news shows from the area. All the locals that were interviewed seem really concerned about this being the end of island life as they know it.

One newscast had about a five minute interview with Tulsi Gabbard. She said that she was out & about talking to people the last couple days & they really believe that either the state government will take over the land, or some big industrial or real estate firms will buy all the land.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It seems it is inevitable that significant events breed conspiracy theories.

It’s almost like buildings have been specifically targeted with pinpoint accuracy……
https://twitter.com/BGatesIsaP.../1690775328686297090

Please can someone explain to me how fire can burn down bricks & mortar to the ground whilst trees remain fully intact?



https://twitter.com/BGatesIsaP.../1690476870523854848