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ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved. Login/Join 
Still finding my way
Picture of Ryanp225
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense. He'd be on the hook.
[/QUOTE]

Which is bullshit and completely unreasonable to any thinking person.
"It's the citizen's responsibility to keep up with all the perverted ways we are trying to fuck him"
Complete tyranny in my opinion.
 
Posts: 10318 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Hammer1967
posted Hide Post
What about when Mr. Normal dies?
Now his unknowing family members are going to be in possession of an NFA firearm. If he does the paperwork they can’t sell it without doing a NFA $200 stamp correct?

Or transfer it to a family member who now has the burden of dealing with it.


__________________________

If Jesus would have had a gun he would be alive today. Homer Simpson
“Him plenty dead” Tonto
 
Posts: 1081 | Location: TN | Registered: February 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of SigSentry
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
The definition of a rifle is contained in the NFA statute itself. I'm wondering if the ATF can administratively modify it without a legislative change. If not, this could be a point of attack in a court challenge.

quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
One of the criteria from the ATF's amended definition of a Rifle in 08F Pistol Brace Rule:

quote:
whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations

Of course the ATF never actually defines ANYTHING, but this line seems problematic for our logical definition of ANY current AR Pistol going forward.


It would appear the ATF is attempting a run around by changing the C.F.A regulations as Chad explain. I had not heard that prior. We will see if that survives legislative muster. FYI, this is what they tried with bump stocks. That did not go well.

 
Posts: 2989 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
^^ they threw the worksheet out the window and ruled that ALL braced pistols are now SBRs.

It’s that simple. If it has a brace-it’s an SBR.

Remove it
Destroy it
Turn it into the ATF
Register it eform1


Or add a 16” upper to it




U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6820 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
The 88 day trap.

GOA Lawyer states that if a background check is not completed in 88 days, it is automatically denied.

If there is a large influx of background check request within a short period of time (120 days) will the FBI background check system be able to keep up.

This video posses an interesting question, doesn’t it.



Edited to add GOA Lawyer Twitter Link @Stambo2a for following:
Link

“A disapproved form 1 for a braced pistol “will result in an enforcement action”. Even for “open background” denial after 88 days.”

“Was that a quote from an ATF rep?”

“Yep.”

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kimber1911,



“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
 
Posts: 5210 | Location: USA | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of grumpy1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ryanp225:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense. He'd be on the hook.


Which is bullshit and completely unreasonable to any thinking person.
"It's the citizen's responsibility to keep up with all the perverted ways we are trying to fuck him"
Complete tyranny in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100 percent and this guy talks about exactly that - the Staples Vs US case in which the Supreme Court decided that the ATF needed to prove the defendant knew he was breaking the law in this scenario where he was charged with being in possession of a machine gun without proper license while he claimed he believed he bought a semi auto rifle..

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/p...nal%20Firearms%20Act.





“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
― Benjamin Franklin
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
― Margaret Thatcher
 
Posts: 9549 | Location: Northern Illinois | Registered: March 20, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SigSentry
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 2989 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
The more I learn about this Final Ruling, the more confident I am that this ruling will be quickly tossed out in court.

This Final Ruling is “Much Ado About Nothing”.
At worst, I believe this Final Ruling will be tossed.
At best, I believe it could result in SBR’s being removed from being an NFA item.

So much overreach, it almost feels intentional, to show how silly it is for SBR’s to be governed by the NFA regulations.



“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
 
Posts: 5210 | Location: USA | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
GOA Lawyer states that if a background check is not completed in 88 days, it is automatically denied

I have a ton more faith that the NICS section will deal well with the increased volume at they havce been practicing at about 150million per year and up and growing than the ATF who can't seem to keep up with like 4 Million a year.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10385 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Down the Rabbit Hole
Picture of Jupiter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kimber1911:
The 88 day trap.



Link

“A disapproved form 1 for a braced pistol “will result in an enforcement action”. Even for “open background” denial after 88 days.”

“Was that a quote from an ATF rep?”

“Yep.”




So those who posted videos/pics of their favorite braced ARs provided the ATF with evidence for prosecution if they don't get the approved form 1?

What a cluster.


Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

 
Posts: 4531 | Location: North Mississippi | Registered: August 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
posted Hide Post
So is this bullshit published to the federal registry or whatever now, or not?


______________________________________________
I believe in the 25th amendment.
 
Posts: 15480 | Location: Gilbert, AZ | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No, not like
Bill Clinton
Picture of BigSwede
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyBiker:
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
^^ they threw the worksheet out the window and ruled that ALL braced pistols are now SBRs.

It’s that simple. If it has a brace-it’s an SBR.

Remove it
Destroy it
Turn it into the ATF
Register it eform1


Or add a 16” upper to it


OK, option number 6 it is


*********************
“I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.”
 
Posts: 4766 | Location: GA | Registered: September 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter:
So those who posted videos/pics of their favorite braced ARs provided the ATF with evidence for prosecution if they don't get the approved form 1?

What a cluster.
No, it’s much worse than that.
No posting of video’s or pictures is required.
You would have simply mailed the evidence to the ATF, while trying to comply with the Final Ruling.

The GOA Lawyer indicated that FBI checks that are not approved within 88 days are automatically denied.

Example of issue raised:
1. Final Ruling Published in Federal Registry, 120 day amnesty begins.

2. Millions having pistols with arm braces file ATF e-form as directed by the ATF.

3. If ATF requires photos, you send ATF the following:

Photo of newly classified SBR of which you have in your possession.
Fingerprints as required for e-form 1 submission.
Your physical address.
Additionally you send a copy of e-form 1 to your local Chief Law Enforcement officer.

4. Due to deluge of FBI background checks required, yours goes beyond 88 days and is denied.

5. Your e-form 1 is denied and you are now illegally in possession of an unregistered NFA item.

You are now a felon having provided the ATF with photographic proof, fingerprints, and your address.
All, this would be possible through no fault of your own, simply trying to comply with the Final Ruling.



“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
 
Posts: 5210 | Location: USA | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
Picture of nhracecraft
posted Hide Post
This is the first I've EVER heard of this 88 day requirement to complete the Background Check, but if that's the case why does it take MORE THAN A YEAR to put a Stamp on the form? Roll Eyes


____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
Trump 2024....Save America!
"May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20
Live Free or Die!
 
Posts: 6940 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyBiker:
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
^^ they threw the worksheet out the window and ruled that ALL braced pistols are now SBRs.

It’s that simple. If it has a brace-it’s an SBR.

Remove it
Destroy it
Turn it into the ATF
Register it eform1


Or add a 16” upper to it


Or take option #6

Ignore them
 
Posts: 10544 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
Short video describing the 88 day trap.




“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
 
Posts: 5210 | Location: USA | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyBiker:
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
^^ they threw the worksheet out the window and ruled that ALL braced pistols are now SBRs.

It’s that simple. If it has a brace-it’s an SBR.

Remove it
Destroy it
Turn it into the ATF
Register it eform1


Or add a 16” upper to it


Or take option #6

Ignore them

Yup.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 14396 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Down the Rabbit Hole
Picture of Jupiter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kimber1911:
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter:
So those who posted videos/pics of their favorite braced ARs provided the ATF with evidence for prosecution if they don't get the approved form 1?

What a cluster.
No, it’s much worse than that.
No posting of video’s or pictures is required.
You would have simply mailed the evidence to the ATF, while trying to comply with the Final Ruling.

The GOA Lawyer indicated that FBI checks that are not approved within 88 days are automatically denied.

Example of issue raised:
1. Final Ruling Published in Federal Registry, 120 day amnesty begins.

2. Millions having pistols with arm braces file ATF e-form as directed by the ATF.

3. If ATF requires photos, you send ATF the following:

Photo of newly classified SBR of which you have in your possession.
Fingerprints as required for e-form 1 submission.
Your physical address.
Additionally you send a copy of e-form 1 to your local Chief Law Enforcement officer.

4. Due to deluge of FBI background checks required, yours goes beyond 88 days and is denied.

5. Your e-form 1 is denied and you are now illegally in possession of an unregistered NFA item.

You are now a felon having provided the ATF with photographic proof, fingerprints, and your address.
All, this would be possible through no fault of your own, simply trying to comply with the Final Ruling.


Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, kimber1911.
I was referring to those that decide not to file for the Form 1.
I sure as hell wouldn't post any pics/video of a braced pistol after this ATF ruling.


Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

 
Posts: 4531 | Location: North Mississippi | Registered: August 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
I expect nothing less from the dishonest ATF and this criminal administration. This is a ploy to turn law abiding Americans into instant felons, and nothing more. Guess what else the pos agents will be collecting? All firearms from each resident charged with a felony. From single shot .22’s through .50 cal rifles.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 14396 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
Here's an interesting article by Paul Howe, retired Delta force Master Sargent regarding door to door confiscation and things along those lines.

He was involved in the Special Operations rescue at Mogadishu which was part of the story of the movie Blackhawk Down.

https://soldiersystems.net/201...inkers-by-paul-howe/
 
Posts: 10544 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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