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Correct me if I’m wrong but you don’t have to destroy them, right? They are just treated as a stock basically? You can own an AR pistol and a stock… you just can’t put said stock on that ar pistol without the correct paperwork | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
Technically, if you 'croak' and the NFA items were NOT on a Trust (so owned by you as an Individual), the NFA item(s) would still go tax free to your beneficiaries, but on a Form 5 - Tax Exempt Transfer. The Form 5 has much of the same info requirements as a Form 4. Regarding Beneficiaries, while a Beneficiary 'can' also be a Trustee, not all Beneficiaries are Trustees. Also, a Beneficiary may be a minor, so in that case, it would be at the very least, be problematic. Regardless, the Trust will streamline the 'transfer' of trust property to the Beneficiary, avoiding Probate Court, as well as the Form 5 Transfer through the ATF. That said, there are multiple advantages of a Trust... - A BIG one is Possession/Use: Anyone on the Trust as a Trustee, can use or possess the NFA item. If owned as an Individual, ONLY that individual can legally possess the item. So, if there's anyone in your household that has access, that 'could' be a problem. The Trust eliminates the 'Constructive/Illegal Possession' for household members that have access to the safe, especially if you're traveling. Additionally, if you simply want others to be able to use the NFA items, the Trust facilitates the legal use/possession by others listed as Trustees. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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Member |
Constructive intent? If you don't have an AR in rifle configuration & only have a pistol, IIRC by having the 2, you technically only have the ability to assemble an unregistered SBR? The Enemy's gate is down. | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
From page 20:
______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est | |||
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Member |
Thank you for the reply. I didn’t realize items not listed on the trust would still go to beneficiaries upon croaking? They would go automatically, assuming they did a Form 5? | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
^^^I edited my previous post w/ some add'l info, but just to add, in the event of your death, individually owned NFA items, just like everything else, would become part of your Estate, distributed per the expressed terms of your Will, and would be subject to Probate, plus the Form 5 Transfer. A Trust avoids all of that! ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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Member |
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when new infringements we conceive. ____________________ | |||
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Member |
If I put a rifle upper on an AR pistol along with a rifle stock then I am Ok, right ? Then do I have to trash the pistol upper. Sorry I have tried reading all the comments and I just got more confused the more I read. | |||
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Wait, what? |
As I understand it, you can change a pistol to a rifle; you just can’t do the opposite. You don’t need to trash the pistol upper, just don’t attach it to a lower making an evil sbr configuration. As justice Scalia wisely pointed out, there most be an element of intent to violate the law. Put it away along with the offending brace (if one exists) and hope for common sense change down the road. Or sell the pistol parts. But trash it? Or give anything to ATF assholes? Never. “Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
Trash the Pistol Upper...NO! First off, you 'could' sell it if you weren't going to keep it! Keeping it is certainly an option, if you already have a SBR. Of course, if you did, you probably wouldn't be asking because you already know that Upper Receiver could be used on ANY Registered SBR you already own. Also, as you're asking, it's assumed you don't plan to register it as an SBR, or are still undecided. So, assuming none of the previous options apply to you, according to the ATF and the new 'Rule' they just dreamed up, you would need to remove the Short Barrel from the Upper Receiver. Regardless, turning in or destroying ANYTHING in NOT necessary! ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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Member |
Thanks
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Member |
I don't plan on replacing the brace for a stock with a AR 16" upper. Also, as my ffl sold me the stripped lower, the short barrel sans brace is still a valid configuration as I understand it. Edit: again, it was kind of ATF to allow us to convert our "SBRs" back to pistols by removing the brace. Assuming the firearm sold was neither a pistol or rife, after converting it to a rifle with a 16" barrel, changing it back to a pistol is not considered "making" a firearm. "Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such configuration would not be considered a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(4)."This message has been edited. Last edited by: SigSentry, | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
One of the criteria from the ATF's amended definition of a Rifle in 08F Pistol Brace Rule:
Of course the ATF never actually defines ANYTHING, but this line seems problematic for our logical definition of ANY current AR Pistol going forward. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
Had a thought about this whole fiasco an hour or so ago while walking the dog. Sig and others selling guns with braces and other companies selling braces for existing guns all have something in common. They advertise how this is just the thing for handicapped people to enable them to shoot a pistol. A smart lawer with GOA or the NRA or any of the other organizations that are going to join together in a lawsuit against the ATF would do well to bring the Americans With Disabilities Act into this whole can of worms. It's a powerful defense as even the ATF doesn't want to be seen as an agency that steps on the rights of disabled people. | |||
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Member |
This should be interesting: Matt Gaets introduces the Abolish the ATF Act. God bless America. | |||
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Member |
One thing that needs to be cleared up here - the BATF is not proposing to ban or restrict pistol braces. The thread title incorrectly says that and it's leading to some confusion here. Up until last week a pistol brace was not a stock so you could put one on an AR pistol and it would still be a pistol. The proposed rule would eliminate this distinction, so a pistol brace is just like any other stock which means putting it on an AR pistol converts the pistol into a short barreled rifle. That's no big deal if the lower is registered as a SBR, but it's a very big deal if it isn't. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
You may notice that this thread and its title were created over two years ago (December 2020), at which time nobody knew exactly what the ATF's final proposal was going to be, other than that they were considering implementing some flavor of ban or restriction. | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
^^^This thread was started over TWO YEARS AGO, but this is where we are... ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
Would have been great if he'd done that when we controlled all three branches of the government. ______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Interesting how? Even if we had a majority of Republicans in the Senate, it would still die. And then there's Biden. Can the House defund the ATF? That would be interesting. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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