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ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved. Login/Join 
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
Until they decide to outright ban them at which time they’ll have a list of who to visit. If they want Waco on the national level that is…


The FBI was a big part of that. The ATF blundered it from the start, but the FBI forced the final confrontations. They don’t have the manpower to carry that out on a national level and it wouldn’t take too many modern Wacos for them to lose their taste for it in a hurry.

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
These SOBs need to be disbanded and sent to work in convenient stores.


The instant that happens, the FBI takes over their responsibilities. I’m not a fan of the ATF, but do you think that would be an improvement? I don’t.


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Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17303 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
These SOBs need to be disbanded and sent to work in convenient stores.


The instant that happens, the FBI takes over their responsibilities. I’m not a fan of the ATF, but do you think that would be an improvement? I don’t.

One less unnecessary government agency? I'll take it. And, when we're talking the success of deleting the ATF, meaning the people will have enough political power and will, the FBI will no longer be able to run their corrupt show unchecked like they've been doing the last few years.


Q






 
Posts: 26712 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!


Did you read the article?



I certainly did.....and I understood it.....how about you?


I certainly did.....and I understood it.....three states, non of which covered AZ.
So I don't know why this is a breath of fresh air, as it doesn't effect/cover you. Or me for that matter.




 
Posts: 10057 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of downtownv
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!


Did you read the article?



I certainly did.....and I understood it.....how about you?


I certainly did.....and I understood it.....three states, non of which covered AZ.
So I don't know why this is a breath of fresh air, as it doesn't effect/cover you. Or me for that matter.


The beginning of a long journey starts with the first step...


_________________________

https://www.teampython.com


 
Posts: 8441 | Location: 18 miles long, 6 Miles at Sea | Registered: January 22, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
One less unnecessary government agency? I'll take it. And, when we're talking the success of deleting the ATF, meaning the people will have enough political power and will, the FBI will no longer be able to run their corrupt show unchecked like they've been doing the last few years.


No, what’s far more likely is the FBI simply absorbs the ATF the way Border Patrol and Customs became ICE. Federal agencies don’t get disbanded, that’s a pipe dream. I don’t like the ATF, but I would rather them in charge of what they’re in charge of than the FBI for all the reasons we’ve talked about here for the last seven or eight years. I understand the sentiment, but it’s become an echo chamber rallying cry without thought of the consequences. A reality where the federal government isn’t up everyone’s ass about the guns they own or could construct is a reality that is A) unlikely to happen and B) would probably be a situation where we’re not following the laws anyways and federal regulators agencies have zero effective authority. We can be idealistic, or we can be pragmatic. For myself, I’d rather the devil we know than the devil who knows everything about everyone and has an agenda that’s much broader in scope.


______________________________________________
Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17303 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!


Did you read the article?



I certainly did.....and I understood it.....how about you?


I certainly did.....and I understood it.....three states, non of which covered AZ.
So I don't know why this is a breath of fresh air, as it doesn't effect/cover you. Or me for that matter.




Because at least it is a start!! A judge has done something in our favor......and we can keep it going. I like it when things happen in our favor.....gun wise, politically, etc. I try to see the good side of it, and be optimistic.
 
Posts: 6639 | Location: Az | Registered: May 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
No, what’s far more likely is the FBI simply absorbs the ATF the way Border Patrol and Customs became ICE.


Border Patrol is not a part of ICE, although they are both under the overall umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security.

ICE was created from the law enforcement and investigative parts of the earlier Customs Service and Immigration and Naturalization Service agencies.

You're probably thinking of US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), which was the agency that was created from combining Border Patrol with the border customs inspection portion of the former Customs Service.
 
Posts: 32626 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted Hide Post
Back on topic.

FPC (one of the plaintiffs in the 5th circuit case) asked for clarification on injunction. Here is their FB post:


This is important because oral arguments are 6/29/23 which is well after the Brace rule goes into affect at the end of May.

BTW, FPC's website has a running list of key events and filings.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 23401 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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_________________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain
 
Posts: 12813 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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All these videos about the injunction with the "BREAKING NEWS!" and "MASSIVE WIN!!" nonsense in the thumbnails are just clickbait with zero info in them. The short version is, there's some lawsuits in Texas, and it has kicked up to the fifth circuit. There's an injunction in place for just the people who brought the suit and it's unclear if that will even stop the enforcement applying to them. It won't apply to anyone else, not even the people in those states. These videos contain no information that will affect the deadline for all of the rest of us. In fact, I'm unsubscribing to Armed Scholar because his videos that used to be so helpful and full of information have gone full retard clickbait in the last six months, building to a fever pitch with all this stuff. GunTubers are not our friend here. What's going to happen is going to happen, this will become defacto law, and it will take years to sort out in the courts in a way that actually affects people on this forum. It pisses me off, but all these flickers of false hope the GunTubers want to give us is them financially preying on our hopes, and that pisses me off perhaps even more. "What do you guys think is gonna happen? Comment down below, and don't forget to subscribe for breaking news, as it happens. Like and share this video, it really helps us out." No, I'm done being algorithmed for your revenue.


quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
You're probably thinking of US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), which was the agency that was created from combining Border Patrol with the border customs inspection portion of the former Customs Service.


I was, thanks. My point stands. Razz


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Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17303 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
All these videos about the injunction with the "BREAKING NEWS!" and "MASSIVE WIN!!" nonsense in the thumbnails are just clickbait with zero info in them.

GunTubers are not our friend here.


Exactly.

Parasites leeching off gun owners' anxiety to try to make a buck via click counts and ad views.
 
Posts: 32626 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A lot of the guntube legal grift crowd are annoying. I think Armed Attorneys do a pretty decent job at discussing the actual legal issues. Plus, Emily Taylor is not difficult on the eyes.

 
Posts: 724 | Location: FL | Registered: July 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
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5th Circuit provided clarification.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 23401 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So, I've gotten the impression that joining the FPC might be a good idea to hedge my bets. Couple of YouTube videos said they're gonna cover new members under this injunction too, so it sounds like my best bet for now.


A Perpetual Disappointment...
 
Posts: 2759 | Location: BFE, Ohio | Registered: August 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted Hide Post
Per FPC's website:
quote:
"We're incredibly excited to report that the Fifth Circuit has clarified that our injunction covers FPC's members and Maxim Defense's customers, as we have always argued for," said Cody J. Wisniewski, Senior Attorney for Constitutional Litigation. "This relief will offer protection while we continue to fight against ATF's overreach."
From the FPC's FB page:



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 23401 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
I don't own any pistol braces, bump stocks or forced reset triggers and never have.

Would someone be so kind as to give a synposis of where all of this stands now, and when- if ever Roll Eyes- this nonsense will be settled once and for all?
 
Posts: 108019 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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In a nutshell:

The ATF deadline for the tax-free braced pistol SBR registration is May 31st. After that date, enforcement of the new "braced pistols are SBRs" rule can potentially begin, although it remains to be seen how hard anyone is going to try to pursue it.

There have been a number of lawsuits filed in opposition of this new rule, challenging it on a bunch of different grounds. These various suits have been filed in a number of different federal court districts, with the suits ranging from the small scale with a few parties, to the large scale with 20-something states' Attorneys General and the NRA banding together in one particular suit.

Currently, there have been no final rulings on any of these federal court cases, and there likely won't be for many months/years. (Likely the latter.) I suspect that this will work its way through the federal district courts, to the federal appeals courts, and eventually land at the feet of the Supreme Court sometime this decade to make a final decision.

Recently, there was a preliminary temporary injunction put in place in one particular suit out of Texas, with the Judge prohibiting the ATF from enforcing the new rule solely against the parties involved in that specific lawsuit, which includes a few individuals along with a brace manufacturer and the members of the Firearms Policy Coalition, a gun rights organization. But so far, those are the only ones shielded from enforcement.

There have also been several pieces of legislation put forward in Congress to overturn the new ATF rule. So far, those are all still in committee, and it will likewise be many months/years before any of those could eventually become law, if ever.

So until there is a final court ruling overturning this, or a federal law put in place overturning this, or perhaps a nationwide injunction put in place by a federal judge in one of these lawsuits (unlikely), federal law enforcement and the federal courts will theoretically be able to enforce this rule against someone caught with an unregistered braced pistol SBR starting June 1st.
 
Posts: 32626 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To add some additional information to RogueJSK's excellent summary; the ATF's position is that their pistol brace rule went into effect as of January 31st 2023. The registration "amnesty" window did not preclude enforcement actions in cases where individuals knowingly transferred braced pistols outside of the NFA process. Theoretically, there could already be a series of precedential prosecutions in the planning stages by DOJ. I would not put anything past a weaponized DOJ at this juncture.

If you have braced pistols and want some free SBR approvals, you've still got a few days to file eform 1s. If you don't want to fool with it, pitch your braces and that should be the end of it for most people(at least for now).

I highly doubt they'll be sending 1811s out knocking on doors for braces. ATF simply doesn't have the resources to wrangle 40+ million braces. But folks who are already on the radar for other issues may be the test cases for prosecutions under the new rules.
 
Posts: 724 | Location: FL | Registered: July 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Leemur
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My disgust with government agencies/bureaucrats has always been completely undisguised but after an interrogation by a horrible person from OSHA yesterday, they can all kiss my entire ass and breathe deeply of scratch n sniff stickers at the bottom of the ocean. It’s just another power grab by unaccountable bureaucrats. May they all choke on the official gigantic Sigforum Bag o’ Dicks.
 
Posts: 13769 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: October 16, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
All these videos about the injunction with the "BREAKING NEWS!" and "MASSIVE WIN!!" nonsense in the thumbnails are just clickbait with zero info in them.

GunTubers are not our friend here.


Exactly.

Parasites leeching off gun owners' anxiety to try to make a buck via click counts and ad views.


The one that uses the bad photoshop of Biden with his hand out and the tiny AR is the worst offender.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37128 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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