quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
[QUOTE]I'm in no way being combative when I say this, but I'm open to an explanation of why this is a bad thing and what you believe would work instead of this, because we have a serious problem in this country. We should have public servants, not the oligarchy we live under.[/QUOTE


Simple, we have the tools to remove them, it's called elections, if the people they represent want them out, then, they can vote them out, term limits exist because we can remove someone at any time with an election.

Now, if you want to debate how elections are handled, campaign funding, corporate support, PAC money, special interests, media support/coverage, that's a different discussion, altogether...

Yes we have elections. That’s the cause of the problems. There is little proof that the elections are fair and a true accounting of the will of the people.

The ballot box has just about outlived it’s usefulness and the system needs a giant reset and purge of the current infestations

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:
His physician, "in consultation with the neurology team" pronounced him fit for duty.

Looked like he made a dookie in his drawers. Somebody should have told that once you get past 60, you never trust a fart.

You say the testing is straightforward: are the results open to subjective interpretation by the test administrator? Would you believe the results if a communist sympathizing BLM donating leftist gave the test to Trump and Biden only to find that Trump is unfit and Biden is sharp as a tack? I'm guessing you'd find those results suspect, yet your solution invites this potential.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No. These are OBJECTIVE TESTS with years of reliability data. The rest of your statement is just silly. BLM folks are not likely to be neuropsychologists. Do you ask the political persuasion of your radiologist or physician?

Philosophically, elections determine term limits. But we've seen the voters are lazy and ignorant. And selfish. Add on top of that the general corruption of congressmen, and the fact they never have to go back home and live amongst regular folk with the laws they made, and the result is corruption without accountability.

Term limits would at least rotate new people through DC which would reduce corruption.

What we really need is a severe reduction in power at the federal level, to abide the limits in the Constitution.

I am all for a random drafting of citizens to serve in Congress.

What we need is governance that strictly adheres to the principles of Federalism and the 10th Amendment, as the Founders intended...Absent that, we NEED term limits!

As member Sjtill previously referenced as Absence Seizures - An absence seizure is the term for a type of seizure involving staring spells. This type of seizure is a brief (usually less than 15 - 30 seconds) disturbance of brain function due to abnormal electrical activity in the brain. The major areas of the brain have one or more specific functions.

My son had these occur to him until he had a full blown seizure. We did not know what they were until after he had the full seizure and then we learned what the Absence Seizures were.

quote:

No. These are OBJECTIVE TESTS with years of reliability data. The rest of your statement is just silly. BLM folks are not likely to be neuropsychologists. Do you ask the political persuasion of your radiologist or physician?

It's not about the tests themselves.

Look at DC now, can you say without any hesitation that no party, no politician will ever abuse that process to eliminate the competition or remove an obstacle to their agenda.

Watching what has happened to Trump, how could anyone look at implementation of a cognitive testing process that is ripe for abuse by the bureaucracy and party in power and not see the flaws in such a plan, how could anyone who values freedom, the right to elect our officials, could propose this as a viable reason to test and thus remove an elected official.

These are the same people who attacked conservative election organizations using the tax code, the same people that put together FISA Court, the same people who used that court to get warrants with little facts or made up documents paid for by the very people who were running against those who the warrants were issued.

Cheese and Rice!

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

I'm in no way being combative when I say this, but I'm open to an explanation of why this is a bad thing and what you believe would work instead of this, because we have a serious problem in this country. We should have public servants, not the oligarchy we live under.

Simple, we have the tools to remove them, it's called elections, if the people they represent want them out, then, they can vote them out, term limits exist because we can remove someone at any time with an election.

Now, if you want to debate how elections are handled, campaign funding, corporate support, PAC money, special interests, media support/coverage, that's a different discussion, altogether...

I would add that term limits, IMO, would only add to the power of the main political parties in determining who serves in elected positions and control over their members. In effect, no or few pols would be able to build power in order to defy their party.

Doctor clears Mitch McConnell after health scare
Link

Published
2 hours ago

Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell is "medically clear" to work, says a doctor, a day after the lawmaker suddenly appeared unable to speak for the second time this summer.

Brian Monahan, the attending physician of the US Congress, said he had consulted with Mr McConnell and his neurology team about the matter.

On Wednesday, Mr McConnell, 81, froze up for more than 30 seconds when asked if he would run for re-election.

He had a similar lapse in July.

During Wednesday's press event in Covington, Kentucky, the senator was unable to answer questions, which had to be repeated by staff.


Mr McConnell made no comment about his health before leaving with aides, who later said he was feeling lightheaded.

He suffered from a concussion after falling at an event in March, according to staff.

Dr Monahan said in a statement on Thursday: "Occasional lightheadedness is not uncommon in concussion recovery and can also be expected as a result of dehydration."

Politico reported that a handful of Republican senators were weighing whether Mr McConnell should stay on as leader.

Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, meanwhile, wrote in a post on social media that Mr McConnell was "not fit for office."

"Severe aging health issues and/or mental health incompetence in our nation's leaders MUST be addressed," Ms Greene said, also mentioning the age of US President Joe Biden, who is 80.

Democratic congressman Dean Phillips called on social media for term limits for members of Congress and the Supreme Court.

On Thursday, President Joe Biden said he had recently spoken with Mr McConnell and that he seemed well.

"He's a friend, and I spoke to him today. And you know, he was his old self on the telephone," Mr Biden told reporters in Washington DC.

Mr Biden added he did not have any concerns about whether Mr McConnell was fit enough to do his job.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
You say the testing is straightforward: are the results open to subjective interpretation by the test administrator? Would you believe the results if a communist sympathizing BLM donating leftist gave the test to Trump and Biden only to find that Trump is unfit and Biden is sharp as a tack? I'm guessing you'd find those results suspect, yet your solution invites this potential.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No. These are OBJECTIVE TESTS with years of reliability data. The rest of your statement is just silly. BLM folks are not likely to be neuropsychologists. Do you ask the political persuasion of your radiologist or physician?

Yes, the past few years have shown physicians to be above base partisan politics. If anyone can be trusted to tell us the truth it is expert physicians employed by the government, and Democrats would never corrupt data for Partisan reasons, LOL.

How about this: we have both articulated our positions and agreement escapes us. You think I'm silly and I think you're naive. I will leave it to readers to decide whose position is more convincing.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Simple, we have the tools to remove them, it's called elections...

Well, ideally speaking, yes.

To that end, though, I don't believe either Biden or Katie Hobbs here actually won the elections in Maricopa county the last two cycles, which brings us to your other point:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Now, if you want to debate how elections are handled, campaign funding, corporate support, PAC money, special interests, media support/coverage, that's a different discussion, altogether...

But I see it as part of the same issue. We have problems with those things above, so what to do? To my mind, it would be beneficial to keep people from getting too entrenched.

quote:

Originally posted by Belwolf:
I would add that term limits, IMO, would only add to the power of the main political parties in determining who serves in elected positions and control over their members. In effect, no or few pols would be able to build power in order to defy their party.

See, I see almost a contradiction in there. Who is the party? Is it donors? Is it voters? Is it the same lizards who've been sitting in Congress voting "present" for decades and "reaching across the aisle" to progressively fuck the American public harder at every turn? If someone can't stay in office long enough to gain enough horsepower to "defy the party," then exactly who is it that's so powerful that they cannot be defied? If you can answer that, then I suggest that's actually a separate issue that we need to go after. Every last one of these assholes goes to DC and gets richer, and the longer they stay, the richer they get, and the less they get done. I'm open to examples that totally knock me off my argument on this, but I don't see much in the way of people defying the party except Donald Trump, and now RFK Jr.

I truly do think it would be best for all of us if nobody, including the bureaucrats at all levels of the federal government, could stay in one position for more than eight years. The bureaucracy lives to perpetuate itself, and nobody who isn't a government employee, no matter where they are on the political spectrum, thinks that things are working well to best help the American public.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
more detail:

Capitol attending physician Dr. Brian Monahan says he talked with McConnell & his neurology team. He says McConnell is “medically clear” to keep his sked

“Occasional lightheadedness is not uncommon in concussion recovery and can also be expected as a result of dehydration.”

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesi...pearing-to-freeze%2F


In March, McConnell, 81, was rushed to the hospital upon suffering a concussion after tripping at a reception. He was cleared to return to work in April.

yep. Postconcussive syndrome (PCS)

P220 Smudge,

Thanks for laying out the case for term limit better than I could ever hope to write. I'm just going to say this to those who oppose term limit. Doing the same thing over and over, and things not only don't get better but continue to worsen, what is it that you are afraid of by trying something completely new?

Government of, by, and for the People...We don't have that right now!

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

I truly do think it would be best for all of us if nobody, including the bureaucrats at all levels of the federal government, could stay in one position for more than eight years.

And put a cap of 16 years TOTAL on it.
Government office is not supposed to be a career.

I see now that I typed “could” when I meant “couldn’t” but I hope what I meant was clear. It should be a public service position where one does their duty to their constituents, and yes, not a career. I’m on board with that 16 years cumulative. The exact problem is that they spend years in there gathering and consolidating power.

We do have elections, but very often we only elect who the monied lobbyists allow us to.

Since elections are not what we’ve been told they are, I think term limits are the only answer. Also, permanent Washington needs to go away. Bureaucracies are far too powerful and unaccountable beyond an occasional tongue lashing. I say all leadership positions are limited to 8 years lifetime. Underlings limited to 16 years and no greater benefits than the average American. Finally, no seniority in congress.

^^^^^
I LOVE [cubed] your plan. Good luck, however, with the implementation stage.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Every last one of these assholes goes to DC and gets richer, and the longer they stay, the richer they get, and the less they get done. I'm open to examples that totally knock me off my argument on this, but I don't see much in the way of people defying the party except Donald Trump, and now RFK Jr.

I suspect we are mostly in violent agreement. The only thing that struck a jarring chord in the above was “and the less they get done.” Frankly, I think the government does way too much already, and that some of the worst things they have done has been in the wake of an event where they felt that had to be seen as “doing something”. The problem is that too often their approach seems to be “Do something even if it is wrong.”

quote:

I truly do think it would be best for all of us if nobody, including the bureaucrats at all levels of the federal government, could stay in one position for more than eight years. The bureaucracy lives to perpetuate itself, and nobody who isn't a government employee, no matter where they are on the political spectrum, thinks that things are working well to best help the American public.

This is an interesting idea. The permanent bureaucracy is definitely a problem. At the same time, newbies in any organization tend to spend much of their efforts climbing a learning curve initially.

Beyond that, I doubt that even most government employees think that things are working well to best help the American public. They may think their job is working well for them, some may even legitimately believe that they are doing their part to best help the American public (and I’ll bet some of them are), but I doubt that many, if any, think that “things” are working.