quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Just to be clear, every federal agency is getting body cams under a Trump era policy. Every federal agency is fielding a certain number of body cams right now.

The big hang up has always been two things. “We’ve always did it this way” and the logistics and payment for the storage and retention of video.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but that’s how it is. Most federal agencies are still working with 1990s technologies.

So, progress then...At the speed of government!

Honestly though, I have to question any concerns by the feds re: the 'payment' for the storage and retention of video. Payment for anything by the .gov has never been a roadblock for, well anything...Ever!

At the very least, we would have to say the gentleman was indiscreet. He was reportedly ventilated because he pointed a gun at the officers. Guess we're going to have to take their word for that.

They knew everything about this guy. Where he went to church, where he went grocery shopping, where he walked his dog, etc.... They could easily have picked him up when he went to buy his corn flakes, but now he's dead for likely doing what any of us would have done if someone kicked in our door.

These high speed low drag tacticool heavily armed "predawn raids" need to come to an end.

It was forgone conclusion. Apparently, the FBI has a very small toolbox. They have all this great information and the inevitable conclusion seems to be "I got it! let's go to the bunker!". At least they didn't drag it out this time.

Here's a video of the FBI pondering what to do...

Hedley Lamar

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
I loved how FBI moved the body to the curb and let it sit there for all the neighbors to see for several hours. Having done death investigations for a better part of my LEO career I have never seen that before. Class act FBI

Yes, I suppose the dead guy hurt their widdle feels by saying mean things to them.

Really, why in the world would they do such a thing, if it wasn't out of viciousness and vindictiveness? The guy brought all of this on himself, but Goddamn, I expect adult behavior out of our Federal agencies, though I guess that that ship has sailed, huh?

Maybe the FBI thinks all his neighbors are just like him and they wanted to send a message to them. It's really screwed up that things are such that this idea even crosses my mind. The FBI used to be the good guys, but I wonder if they have any idea at all about how much they are despised and disrespected these days. They may think they know, but I don't think they do.

I find that the huge difference between how the media portrayed (stupid and nutty) this guy and the way his actual neighbors portrayed (kind, gentle, helpful, etc) him stunning. Not saying he couldn't be both, but he sounded like a great neighbor to have, and not like a scary half-crazed mental gun nut early reports indicated. Agree with Gustoferson above. It sounds like the local sherrif could have gone up, knocked on the door: then quietly and safety made the arrest.

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
Here's a video of the FBI pondering what to do...

Hedley Lamar

EXACTLY!

quote:

Originally posted by jimb888:
I find that the huge difference between how the media portrayed (stupid and nutty) this guy and the way his actual neighbors portrayed (kind, gentle, helpful, etc) him stunning. Not saying he couldn't be both, but he sounded like a great neighbor to have, and not like a scary half-crazed mental gun nut early reports indicated. Agree with Gustoferson above. It sounds like the local sherrif could have gone up, knocked on the door: then quietly and safety made the arrest.

Well, if his neighbors had been members of the Biden administration, there might have been a bit of friction.

If the guy did in fact post all those things, then it doesn't matter how well he got along with his neighbors. If he posted that stuff, he was begging for a spanking from Uncle Sugar.

As to the option of a peaceful arrest, I think this guy had made sufficient threats to rule out coaxing him into the cuffs.

The FBI has proven in their actions and inactions how Corrupt they are. Doesn’t this bring out a little crazy or drive you just a little bit nuts?
I’m not condoning this guy’s actions on social media. He rightly should have been looked at and contacted. But when you hear of a leftist threatening to blow up the whitehouse at a podium on national TV or show a severed head of a current president you don’t see anything being done. It is pathetic how corrupt people in the government are and not a damn thing is being done about it!

Just more distraction fodder to support their “Conservatives are EVIL” campaign.

You see, when you and your opponent merely have different opinions it is difficult to justify a “No rules, anything is fair game” approach to domination.

On the other hand, when you are fighting EVIL, than any action or tactic can be justified as being for the greater good and anyone who disagrees becomes a threat to democracy.


All is fair in love and fighting Nazi’s therefore anyone who disagrees is a Nazi sympathizer who wants to ”Destroy our Democracy” (or Constitutional Republic but who really understands he difference these days?)


We need the FBI to bring these folks to justice at the exact time and in the exact manner that will produce the most compliant citizenry and further their master’s agendas. It is our duty to trust that they will always have “Their best men on it…” we need not question their methods as we are constantly reminded that they are above reproach and hero’s, one and all.

Is that what this is? The stuff this guy posted was not in any way vague; it was specific and explicit and apparently, he kept at it for months. The FBI tried to talk with him and he told them to get a warrant. He was begging for trouble and he got it.

Those of you who want to turn this into something else because you don't like the timing, or you feel federal law enforcement response to such things is lopsided, or whatever- you're going to believe whatever you want to believe.

He asked for a warrant and they got one. Sounds like a Fuck Around and Find Out situation to me.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Is that what this is? The stuff this guy posted was not in any way vague; it was specific and explicit and apparently, he kept at it for months. The FBI tried to talk with him and he told them to get a warrant. He was begging for trouble and he got it.

Those of you who want to turn this into something else because you don't like the timing, or you feel federal law enforcement response to such things is lopsided, or whatever- you're going to believe whatever you want to believe.

Oh he definitely warranted their attention, and rightfully so.

I am just of the mind that “they” don’t always pick the best way to deal with such threats. Long history of bad outcomes that might have gone better with a different plan or timing. As Gustofer said, they likely had all sorts of intel on this guy and his routine yet they chose the infamous early morning raid.

That doesn’t mean he didn’t have it coming, but if they wanted to avoid that outcome and actually effect an arrest there may have been better options.

A regrettable outcome, but not a surprising one.
Being deeply disgusted by this administration isn't hard to understand. Making threats against is hard to see as being in any way sensible. There's another election coming. The time and place to annihilate them is at the polls. Threatening (or committing) violence against pols that we don't like is not the way.

I completely understand arresting this guy. You make death threats, you get arrested. I understand bringing enough agents that he hopefully just surrenders. What I don’t understand is confronting him in his house where you KNOW he has firearms, at least one of which is more than capable of punching through your body armor. Watch him for a day, wait until he goes out with nothing more than a handgun, and then arrest him, in broad daylight, when everyone can see and video that the FBI is following the law to a “T”.

So the best way is to have a full team on standby indefinitely, for as long as it takes for the guy to go where exactly? You want a shootout in the IHOP parking lot? wait a couple weeks until he decides to drive to an ideal location like the middle of nowhere?

I'm not sure the average person has a great amount of knowledge that goes into assessing the elements that go into a warrant service.

A full team? For a 75 year old fat guy walking on a cane? I hope that is not a 20 member team requirement which is reportedly who knocked on his door. Yeah pick him up at church as he-is getting in his car…OH but that ain’t FUN is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
These high speed low drag tacticool heavily armed "predawn raids" need to come to an end.

Yep.

Gang violence update: another SWAT raid fatality
By John Dietrich

“There’s a whole lot of things that goes (sic) into the judgment about what is the way to conduct arrests safely and securely.” — Christopher Wray

On the morning of August 9th, at approximately 6 am, a SWAT team conducted a raid on the home of 75-year-old Craig Robertson. Robertson, a 300-pound Air Force veteran, had difficulty walking and used a cane. This fact alone would make an assassination attempt extremely difficult. However, he claimed to own a sniper rifle and his threats should not have been disregarded. Agents were attempting to serve him with an arrest warrant. Robertson was charged with making internet threats on the life of the president and other government officials. Reportedly the FBI attempted to enter the home with a battering ram. When this failed, they used a vehicle-mounted ram to enter via the front window. One law enforcement source claimed the suspect appeared to point a gun in the general direction of agents. There is no mention of who fired the first six shots. They were followed by FBI agents shouting: “Shots fired, shots fired. He’s got a gun!” This was followed by a hail of bullets.

After Robertson was shot FBI agents dragged him outside where they attempted to render first-aid. When seconds could be a matter of life or death it would seem advisable to render first-aid where he first landed. However, this would not have had the theatrical benefit of showing the FBI compassion for their victim. He later died on the sidewalk and his body was left under a white, blood-soaked sheet for approximately two hours.

Usually, these SWAT raids go according to plan. Consider this story, about 66-year-old Thomas Caldwell and his wife Sharon who were awakened at 5:30 a.m. on January 19 by the FBI, after attending the Trump rally on January 6th. Caldwell, wearing only in his underwear, went to see what the commotion was; in his words:

There was a full SWAT team, armored vehicles with a battering ram, and people screaming at me. People who looked like stormtroopers were pointing M4 weapons at me, covering me with red [laser] dots.

Caldwell’s wife was also covered with red dots from the weapons aimed at her. She, dressed in her nightgown, begged to put on her socks before they forced her outside in the cold.

William Chrestman’s home was also raided in the early morning hours. He woke up to flash bangs going off outside his bedroom window. An FBI agent with a bullhorn was yelling at Chrestman while he was talking to the FBI on the phone. When he answered the door, he was told not to bother getting dressed.

Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe was also a subject to a pre-dawn raid. He reported, “I went to my door to answer the door and there were ten FBI agents with a battering ram.” He was also partially clothed in front of his neighbors. Christopher Kuehne opened his door with his 4-year-old son in his arms; they were both covered by red lasers pointed at them. Kuehne’s wife suffered a miscarriage the following day.

Christoper Wray claims that the decision to use SWAT teams is made locally. He testified, “Those decisions are made—as they should be—by the commanders on the ground, in the field office.” Attorney General Merrick Garland said essentially the same thing: “The determinations of how to make arrests under arrest warrants are made based by the tactical operators in the district.”

Yet the similarities of these raids would mean that the “commanders on the ground” were using the same playbook. That’s the playbook written by the Soviet KGB. This playbook recommends pre-dawn raids in which the arrested person is dazed and half-asleep. An enormous show of force is advised to terrify neighbors. Military equipment, helicopters and tanks emphasize the seriousness of the arrest. The raid on Joshua James’s residence used an armored vehicle with a turret, two vans, six FBI vehicles, and three local police cars. These raids are an enormous expense. Top leaders cannot be unaware of this. Judge Andrew Napolitano estimated the raid on Roger Stone cost approximately half a million dollars.

It is not unusual for SWAT raids to go terribly wrong. Innocent people, including children, have been maimed and killed in their homes. The New York Times examined SWAT team raids in 2017 and found that at least 81 civilians and 13 officers had died from 2010 through 2016 in such searches. The government paid Randy Weaver $3.1 Million for the murder of his wife and son at Ruby Ridge. Weaver’s wife was shot by a sniper while she was holding her baby. Wray has expressed confidence in the “career agents on the ground” who make these decisions (about conducting SWAT raids) “appropriately.” Does this include making an arrestee’s spouse walk barefoot in the snow, or training weapon lasers on 4-year-olds?

Whistleblower and former FBI SWAT team member Steve Friend testified, “after raising concerns about using a SWAT team to arrest a subject of the Jan. 6 investigations,” he was ordered off the job for a day. Friend believed that the subject was willing to surrender voluntarily. His supervisors were not interested in the subject’s voluntary surrender. Perhaps the best illustration of the Justice Department’s motivation is provided by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia, Michael Sherwin. Sherman announced:

I wanted to ensure, and our office wanted to ensure, that there was shock and awe. That we could charge as many people as possible before [January] 20th. And it worked because we saw through media posts that people were afraid to come back to D.C., because they were like, ‘If we go there, we’re going to get charged.’

The joy these bureaucrats gain from seeing people suffer is truly pathological.

https://www.americanthinker.co...t_raid_fatality.html

FBI says Utah man who allegedly threatened Biden was killed after pointing .357 handgun at agents

The Federal Bureau of Investigation said its agents followed the Department of Justice’s policy on use of deadly force when they shot a Utah man last week who allegedly made threats against President Biden.

In a statement to Fox News Digital, the FBI said it continues to review the agent-involved shooting that happened at about 6:15 a.m. on Aug. 9 in Provo, Utah.

That morning, agents went to 75-year-old Craig Deleeuw Robertson’s home to serve arrest and search warrants after he allegedly made threats toward elected officials and law enforcement officers.

"Robertson resisted arrest and as agents attempted to take him into custody, he pointed a .357 revolver at them," the FBI said. "The FBI takes all shooting incidents involving our agents and task force officers seriously. In accordance with FBI policy, the shooting incident is under review by the FBI’s Inspection Division."

The agency did not have any other details about the investigation.

But when it comes to when agents are permitted to use deadly force, the FBI said it follows the DOJ’s policy, which was adopted on May 20, 2022.

"Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person," the FBI said of the policy, which can be found on the DOJ’s website.

Prosecutors filed a complaint last Monday in U.S. District Court, Utah district, stating that Robertson was being charged with interstate threats, influencing, impeding and retaliating against federal law enforcement officers by threat, and threats against the president.

Prosecutors also allege that Robertson threatened on social media to kill Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.

Other posts allegedly included threats against other politicians like California Gov. Gavin Newsom.

In a court filing, an FBI agent said Robertson appeared to "own a sniper rifle and a ghillie suit" in addition to other firearms.