Daly Mail linky

As I look at this pic more, it seems the viewport is not present, and we’re seeing the white tarp.

here is a video of the pieces

you can see more detail at

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...ge-titanic-1.6891003

Ahhh, that is a different picture. No viewport though. That loading strap is going through a hole. Lol.

I still can’t open that original link, I will try your new one.

Good Lord journalism is bad. That article quotes a Dr who says recovering bodies may be possible then says it’s impossible to rule out any possibility. Fuck. Say something idiotic and then be so unsure of your expertise that your doctorly answer is “well anything’s possible”.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Given what we've read about the probable violence of the implosion, I'm honestly surprised any of the carbon fiber pieces of those sizes remained.

As far as I can see, those are not carbon fiber pieces of the hull. The first pic appears to be a section of the outer housing of the pressure hull, the other photos of pieces not of the pressure hull housing the humans. CF, unlike steel or titanium, shatters when failure occurs; it doesn't bend or dent or crushes like a beer can. This is why the other deep sea experts use titanium or steel, as you can see, the parts they are pulling out are of these materials. IMO, the CF tube is in a thousand pieces.

The viewing port could have been the element that initiated the implosion, it also could have been blown out by over pressure inside when it came apart.

Remember how fast and violent that event was and the significant forces, temperatures, and pressures involved in that very short period of time.

It also could have been intact, and simply photographed and removed to make movement of that component easier.

Those pictures are obviously the end cap that had the view port. I didn’t see those pictures in the first two linked articles.

Except for the missing viewport, it looks to be in good shape.

I’m just going to opine that there is zero chance they took parts apart to make them easier to handle. The actual investigators would lose their ever loving minds if they did that underway just to make movement easier. Zero chance.

^^^ All of those are could be true but let's apply the additional facts known at this time.

We know that it was at depth, and would have also had a tremendous force applying inward from outside. I'm not so sure an implosion would be able to push it outward with the outside force pushing it in.

We know that passengers within the sub heard cracking sounds that were attributed to coming from the hull. The viewport was acrylic. Rush said in an interview that the acrylic viewport would "start to crackle so you get a huge warning if it's going to fail". Is it possible that the viewport was beginning to give way and the damage was hidden beneath the mounting ring where it wasn't easily visible, and possibly never inspected or missed inspection?

According to the whistleblower, the viewport was only certified by its manufacturer and their engineers to a depth of 1,300 meters. That's only 1/3 the depth of Titanic, and it had been at that depth +/- 20 times, not counting any other potential dives it had taken elsewhere.

Then, when the nose cone is found, the viewport is absent.

Given everything that is actually known at this point, that's what I'd be looking at first.

Looking at the videos, they have both titanium rings that were glued to the carbon fiber tube. Not a shred of carbon fiber is still glued to the parts of the rings that are visible.

My guess is the carbon fiber tube collapsed blowing the end caps, rings, and the acrylic portion of the viewport outwards. Judging by the taper of the part still bolted to the end cap, the acrylic portion of the viewport was a tapered plug such that pressure from the outside would seal it tighter.

I would guess that if the viewport was the point of failure, the water would have rushed in from there preserving the carbon fiber tube.

I said it many pages ago, but with my minimal knowledge of wood working, that edge glued joint between the rings and tube really bugged me.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Given everything that is actually known at this point, that's what I'd be looking at first.

Yes, it's not that the viewport blew out when the craft imploded. It would have stayed bolted in place, because there weren't tremendous forces working on it, and it wasn't beveled in such a way to resist inward pressure on its outer surface. No, it was designed to resist outward pressure on its inner surface, so, when the craft imploded, it should have stayed in place, because it was designed to withstand the craft being crushed like an aluminum can being run over by a bulldozer.

Therefore, since we see that it is missing from the end cap, it must be the point of failure. Sure, makes sense.

And before you tell me about how you "just" said that that's where they should be looking, I'll remind you that each time you post in this thread, you give the appearance of a man fully entrenched in a position he can never move from. You just have to be right about this.

You're not doing yourself any favors. You are damaging your credibility, but you'll dismiss what I'm telling you, guaranteed.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Those pictures are obviously the end cap that had the view port. I didn’t see those pictures in the first two linked articles.

Except for the missing viewport, it looks to be in good shape.

Sure, because it was made from titanium, one of the industry preferred materials for a pressure hull construction, along with steel.

But also acrylic.

This one, a Triton model, capable of almost 3500 ft of depth.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Since the support ship communicated w Titan on an acoustic system, it will be interesting to find out if the support ship heard anything at time of implosion

They did hear a sound however, given the depths, the relative small size of Titan and the general materials (CF), what they heard, could not be verified since they did not have another ROV to 'check things out'. .....

Wait, what? They heard a sound over the comm?
Is there a source for this?

Unless they had a high school student design some analog comm system using technology from the 1950's there would be nothing to hear since it's still a digital bit stream, just acoustic transmission of the bit stream instead of over a wire or RF. This aids in the awful signal to noise ratio of an analog systems for comm in water.

source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ustic_communications

But if it was some type of analog system, then this outfit really did cut corners.

It was an interview that I'd come across where the guest said that the support vessel Polar Prince, had detected a sound change at the same time comms were lost. Trying to find if that video was available and i'll post it. I'm not a radio expert, the person may very well have been exaggerating or, attempting to jump the gun, since investigators will be going over what recordings the support ship has and didn't have.

There's a lot that hasn't been made publicly available yet, interesting to see if OceanGate used any transponders or, comms repeaters from the ocean floor to help support Titan. You compare their operation, to the Five Deeps Expedition , where three benthic landers were used to help navigate the DSV, along with being a comms/navigation node, also doing double duty as a specimen and data recording platform. .

I as well read that a person or some people aboard the Polar Prince heard something at the time communication with the Titan was lost.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
There's a lot that hasn't been made publicly available yet, interesting to see if OceanGate used any transponders or, comms repeaters from the ocean floor to help support Titan.

In numerous reports I read, the Titan did not have any beacon system whatsoever, and Rush had the team eliminate voice comms because he was tired of responding to their updates and checkups. He just wanted to enjoy the ride in peace.

remember for days we heard about the "knocking sounds every 30 minutes"

That set off a ton of speculation about them being alive, and about to run out of oxygen.

news link here: https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/...an-crew-still-alive/

I guess whoever made that up is crawling under a rock somewhere.

Oh, we did hear about the ocean making it's own noise, but seriously, every 30 minutes, almost on schedule.

Just goes to show how this story evolved and continues to evolve.


Frank Owen, a former Australian submarine officer and now search-and-rescue director, told The Post he is confident that the noises are coming from inside of the Titan vessel, as those aboard are well-trained in emergency submarine situations. “This tells me a huge amount,” Owen said of the banging. “On board the Titan is the French former Navy diver, the Titanic expert [Paul-Henry Nargeolet]. But also because he’s a diver, he understands the way search forces look for submarines that are lost … submariners are taught that if they’re stuck in a disabled submarine on the hour and the half hour they bang the hull for three minutes, then they stop. They don’t make any more noise.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
There's a lot that hasn't been made publicly available yet, interesting to see if OceanGate used any transponders or, comms repeaters from the ocean floor to help support Titan.

In numerous reports I read, the Titan did not have any beacon system whatsoever, and Rush had the team eliminate voice comms because he was tired of responding to their updates and checkups. He just wanted to enjoy the ride in peace.

Such a fool...

There must've been some data link, giving telemetry or, some kind of basic feedback. Diving that deep without any kind of connected support is just plan stupid but, then again, this guy's previous quotes....

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

I would guess that if the viewport was the point of failure, the water would have rushed in from there preserving the carbon fiber tube.

I don't think that's how it works. Once the pressure barrier was broken, the tube would've collapsed violently. The end caps probably survived due to their shape, material, and the nature in which they were secured to the carbon fiber tube.

My thought process is the whole thing is under X pressure. If the acrylic viewport shatters, at that moment, the whole thing is still under X pressure. I’m guessing, but I don’t believe the external pressure on any other part rises which is why I’m guessing the carbon fiber tube wouldn’t collapse. What I think happens next is the rebound from the implosion pops the end caps off, but because the tube is way stronger in tension, it survives the rebound of the implosion.

Just a WAG on my part.

‘“Frank Owen, a former Australian submarine officer and now search-and-rescue director, told The Post he is confident that the noises are coming from inside of the Titan vessel, as those aboard are well-trained in emergency submarine situations. “This tells me a huge amount,” Owen said of the banging. “On board the Titan is the French former Navy diver, the Titanic expert [Paul-Henry Nargeolet]. But also because he’s a diver, he understands the way search forces look for submarines that are lost … submariners are taught that if they’re stuck in a disabled submarine on the hour and the half hour they bang the hull for three minutes, then they stop. They don’t make any more noise.“‘

Seismic anomaly, magma displacement, whales humping.