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Scar 16S APC223 or HK556 Login/Join 
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Picture of Accomplice
posted
Edit: added the APC223

I can get a used example of either gun for about the same money. What would you guys pick between these 2?

I’m assembling a collection of 5.56 guns that aren’t traditional ARs.

*Updated my post with thoughts after some time with these:

Sig 556xi-super reliable with steel cased ammo, does everything well but not as well as MCX, great charging handle location
Galil Ace Gen 2 - very reliable tank, just too heavy
Bren 2 - need more time with it
BRN-180 - charging handle on wrong side but otherwise a pretty good gun
JAKL 13.7” - too front heavy, lots to like otherwise
Templar Crusader Arms - too heavy overall
ARX100 - controls not perfect, sling mounts are a pain
Sig MCX Gen 1 - very reliable w/ steel, very light, great ergos except charging handle, best handling in terms of front end weight
Perun X-16 - need more time on it
Robinson XCR - need more time with it, noticeably heavier than MCX gen 1
IWI Carmel - will be looking hard at official weight numbers before trying
APC223 - never added to collection

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Accomplice,


Roswell Crash - July, 1947, CIA Formed - Sept, 1947
 
Posts: 1936 | Registered: September 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To be fair, the MR556A1 is basically just a piston AR. A well made and expensive one, but still an AR (without a chrome lined barrel). I’d choose a SCAR 16S over the HK MR556.

No ACR on your list?
 
Posts: 3302 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a similar collection of stuff that takes Stanag mags which aren't AR's. I'd take the SCAR everyday all day long. The aftermarket and parts difference is substantial.
But of course you need a Bren 805, an AUG, an ACR, an RDB, and a few others as you complete your collection...


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10905 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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I've taken note of your collection in your previous mentions. I recall wondering why a SCAR 16 wasn't on that list already. Wink

No, seriously, for that collection, it's the SCAR.


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Posts: 16976 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've had both.
I sold the HK.





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Posts: 1511 | Location: Kernersville, NC | Registered: June 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Used to have a bunch of ARs. DDM4V11's and V9's, Spikes ST & SL 15s, Stag15, and a few more I've probably forgotten. They are all gone. My SCAR 16 is still here and I wouldn't have it any other way.



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Posts: 589 | Location: in the PA woods | Registered: March 11, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dwill104:
To be fair, the MR556A1 is basically just a piston AR. A well made and expensive one, but still an AR (without a chrome lined barrel). I’d choose a SCAR 16S over the HK MR556.

No ACR on your list?


Thank you for the feedback. For some reason, the ACR never got to the top of my list, and so the value to me was down near the cost of the JAKL, and because the prices were always out running the value to me, I could never add one to the collection. Over the last few months they appear to have gone from about $2000 to $3000 or more. If I see one pop up for $1,600 I’ll go for it (ha ha).


Roswell Crash - July, 1947, CIA Formed - Sept, 1947
 
Posts: 1936 | Registered: September 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I've taken note of your collection in your previous mentions. I recall wondering why a SCAR 16 wasn't on that list already. Wink

No, seriously, for that collection, it's the SCAR.


Ha, thank you. It may not seem like it but I’m actually a pretty cheap person (just got the MCX legacy for $1,155 shipped and ARX100 for $1,250 shipped) so I had this mental block about spending over $2000 on a single rifle since there were so many good options available for less. Now I’m starting to really scour for some used examples where I can still be cheap and Add the gun to the collection.

I owned two scars years ago but they were under $2000 at the time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Accomplice,


Roswell Crash - July, 1947, CIA Formed - Sept, 1947
 
Posts: 1936 | Registered: September 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think I'd go Bren 2 or APC223. Check out some bullpups if you like them. I believe the scar has to take metal mags, could be wrong. Its cool, I'd be happy if I found one, I love my 17 but the 16 just somehow doesn't jump at me.

The Bren is light weight and has some really cool features, very well made.

The APC is a really cool gun, a bit heavy but the swissness is evident. I love my APC300.
 
Posts: 3008 | Location: Pnw | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubismp:
I believe the scar has to take metal mags, could be wrong.


I've seen that Pmags can damage a SCAR, but there's a modification you can do to work around that.

I believe the OP has a Bren 2. I will second that it is an excellent rifle, I really like mine.


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Posts: 16976 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd go SCAR and sleep like a baby. If it was a 416 it would be closer, and I'd still prefer the SCAR.

I believe the Gen 3 Pmags work in the 16 but pulling that from the back of my other brain cell.


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Posts: 6943 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The problem with SCARs and Pmags was with the Gen2 (now MOE) mags. The bolt catch on the SCAR isn’t on the centerline like on the AR, and the Gen2 mags had a V shaped notch on the back of the mag that would allow the AR catch to fully drop down below the bolt, but not the SCAR catch. This was fixed on the Gen3 mags
 
Posts: 3302 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This whole issue is red herring and distraction at this point. I think we first discussed this issue in 2018 (all you good searchers can find that thread). It is a completely understood issue. Stanag metal mags don't have it (GI, HK maritime, Brownels, D&H, Okay etc. etc.). Non stanag mags may have it. But its trivial to check if a mag has it, and its trivial to fix. Why on earth is this an material part of the thread in this a discussion?
Get a SCAR they are terrific and I'm an addict. I especially love the gas screw system for running suppressed.
But if that's not your fancy get a Bren, get an ACR, get a FS2000, get an AUG, get an HK, Get a B&T (side note I love B&T stuff overall but expect that you won't survive it cheaply. I can name another dozen options. But of all the ones I own (and that's ton of them) the SCAR is my favorite non AR 5.56.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10905 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You have cow?
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Since I can't swing it at this time without serious mandatory relationship counseling, I'll just say there's a very decently priced PD trade 16 on GB right now, with an Eotech that could make up some of the difference if one were so inclined.

We all know know cops don't shoot their guns. Just trunk and holster wear. Big Grin


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Posts: 6943 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would say neither. I would spend the money on a good DI rifle instead.

Of the two choices, I’d go with the lesser of evils, the HK. Less proprietary parts, less wear and tear on optics, less heat around your support hand during heavy firing cycles.

The only major problem with the HK is if the barrel needs to be changed, it has to go back to HK. But, that’s a bigger talking point than it is a problem, as most everyone that buys them will never burn through a barrel, chrome lined or not.

The SCAR did not turn heads in the military for a reason.

But, again, I’d spend the money on a Knights, or Geissele. Lighter weight, bountiful parts, great recoil patterns……. Truly the AR evolved.

This is from a guy who did R&D work on aftermarket support on the SCAR and has been issued a HK416. I ultimately sold all three of the SCARs and turning the 416 back in for an older Noveske MK18. A MK18 that I’m still issued today.




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Posts: 36994 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Between these two I'd take the MR556. Not a SCAR fan myself; a prodigal example of a dead end that never truly garnered serious traction much like FN's prior FS2000, except of course with Call of Duty gamers. Conversely the Cult of HK will carry the MR556 forward when the day comes that HK finally discontinues the gun. Whether justified or not, the HK will be canonized like the MP5 and G36 before it. Meanwhile there is at least one aftermarket chrome-lined barrel option available for the MR556 if you should decide to use it like it was meant to be used.


-MG
 
Posts: 1893 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
I would say neither. I would spend the money on a good DI rifle instead.


OP says “ I’m assembling a collection of 5.56 guns that aren’t traditional ARs” and you tell him to get a KAC or a Geissele.



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Posts: 16976 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by jljones:
I would say neither. I would spend the money on a good DI rifle instead.

Of the two choices, I’d go with the lesser of evils, the HK. Less proprietary parts, less wear and tear on optics, less heat around your support hand during heavy firing cycles.

The only major problem with the HK is if the barrel needs to be changed, it has to go back to HK. But, that’s a bigger talking point than it is a problem, as most everyone that buys them will never burn through a barrel, chrome lined or not.

The SCAR did not turn heads in the military for a reason.

But, again, I’d spend the money on a Knights, or Geissele. Lighter weight, bountiful parts, great recoil patterns……. Truly the AR evolved.

This is from a guy who did R&D work on aftermarket support on the SCAR and has been issued a HK416. I ultimately sold all three of the SCARs and turning the 416 back in for an older Noveske MK18. A MK18 that I’m still issued today.


Why would the MR have to go back to HK for a barrel swap? Many people have swapped barrels on their MR. It doesn’t use a standard AR barrel but, but there are proper tools available.
 
Posts: 3302 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

OP says “ I’m assembling a collection of 5.56 guns that aren’t traditional ARs” and you tell him to get a KAC or a Geissele.



What about it?

This is a discussion forum. I’ve had both of the examples, and wouldn’t have either in my collection. Occasionally, people appreciate advice based upon actual experience instead of threads being one sided popularity contests.




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"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 36994 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
This is a discussion forum. I’ve had both of the examples, and wouldn’t have either in my collection. Occasionally, people appreciate advice based upon actual experience instead of threads being one sided popularity contests.


Occasionally? Anyone with any experience always says some variation on "get a quality AR, put a quality optic on it, and spend the rest on ammo and training." It's the center spot on my bingo card. While there's all kinds of merit to that suggestion, it's 2023 and that answer is rote. The rifles he posted on his list may not be your first choice for serving a high risk warrant, but they do make for an interesting collection built on a theme. If I had to guess, he probably already has said duty grade AR and this stuff is just for fun. Smile


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