quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
If I'm beginning to understand this steel/tactical/whatever match thingie, the pure accuracy requirements are lower than the standards required for your F-Class comps.

I don't know about that. Those F-Class guys shoot from the same comfy prone position on every shot, sighters, someone spotting their impacts, a grid like target for EZ holds, same distance every shot, almost a half hour to shoot 20rds, trigger pull measured in single digit ounces, cart to haul their stuff to the line........ I could teach my grandma to shoot prone/F-Class Just kidding around. Will have my 6BR barreled action this week, if I get the load figured out in time for the last 600YD F-Class match at the Colrado Rifle Club, I'll shoot it. No doubt it will be a learning exprience.

jelrod1, shoot well at your upcoming steel match.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
If I'm beginning to understand this steel/tactical/whatever match thingie, the pure accuracy requirements are lower than the standards required for your F-Class comps.

I don't know about that. Those F-Class guys shoot from the same comfy prone position on every shot, sighters, someone spotting their impacts, a grid like target for EZ holds, same distance every shot, almost a half hour to shoot 20rds, trigger pull measured in single digit ounces, cart to haul their stuff to the line........ I could teach my grandma to shoot prone/F-Class Just kidding around. Will have my 6BR barreled action this week, if I get the load figured out in time for the last 600YD F-Class match at the Colrado Rifle Club, I'll shoot it. No doubt it will be a learning exprience.

jelrod1, shoot well at your upcoming steel match.

Apart from the "grid like target for EZ holds" you captured the essence of F-Class to a T. There's a reason old geezers like it.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
What a nice way of saying "Piss off, my ammo's fine."

FGMM is excellent factory ammo and while it's difficult enough these days to acquire handloading skills to make ammo comparable to regular factory ammo, matching FGMM is even more so. You need to have top notch equipment and components to produce better ammo. If ever they switched to a better bullet like a Berger or similar, FGMM would be very hard to beat, except for the price.

I believe the weakest link in my shooting system is me, and I need to fix it first. Four different instructors have shot my rifle with FGMM and Corbon, each producing 100 yard groups in the .1" to .2" range. Both inspiring and depressing. Frank Galli suspects my brain fart groups are due to inconsistencies with my rear bag technique. He stated my breathing and trigger press are good.

But ultimately I probably shoot factory loads because I just don't want to take the time to reload and I'd rather be doing other activities. Like trying to keep myself in master class in sporting clays, long-ish distance bike riding, ski racing, and rock climbing. I really need to win a monster lotto, so I have time to play 7 days per week.

FWIW, I continue to retain the once-fired Lapua .308 brass fired through my rifle. It just may be useful sometime down the road.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:
I could teach my grandma to shoot prone/F-Class Just kidding around.

Ouch.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
I could teach my grandma to shoot prone/F-Class Just kidding around.

Ouch.

Fixed it for you. I was not the one who said that. My grandma died decades ago at the ripe old age of 82.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Frank Galli suspects my brain fart groups are due to inconsistencies with my rear bag technique.

What rear bag are you using?

My 6BR barreled action should be here on Weds. Posted about it a few pages back on this thread. Bighorn single shot action, Bartlien Heavy Palma 8 twist finsihed at 28", timed CG Extreme two stage trigger.

Messed around today loading a few 6BR rounds. I know the freebore of the reamer used is .104. A good friend who shoots a 6BR gave me his OAL with the Berger 105 Hybrids. Using his numbers loaded a few rounds, Hybrids should be jumped .010-.020, conservaive charge of IMR 8208XBR, CCI 450's, .0015 neck tension. Plan is to shoot a few rounds, zero the scope, drill/tap one of the fired cases for the Hornady OAL gauge.

jelrod1's 6BR is shooting very well with 8208, hoping it works well for me. If not, have Varget and H4895.

Look forward to comparing the 6BR to my 6x47. A fellow match shooter has both calibers, he's telling me the 6BR will shoot inside the 6x47, we'll see.

The 6BR sure is a goofy looking cartridge.

.223, 6BR/Hybrid, 6x47/Hybrid

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Frank Galli suspects my brain fart groups are due to inconsistencies with my rear bag technique.

What rear bag are you using?

I have two -- the small TAB and a slightly larger FTW. Frank squeezes the bean bag side-to-side (3-to-9 o'clock), essentially trapping the buttstock with the bag, plus he tends to touch the buttstock with a finger or two to help trap the stock. He said I should think of how the F-Class guys use a bunny-ear bag to control the stock.

I tried Frank's method for a day, but struggled badly with vertical dispersion, so I returned to my prior method.

If the stock goes in a 12-to-6 o'clock axis, I tend to squeeze the bag in a 1-to-7 o'clock axis (that's a natural left hand position for me) if I need just a little elevation, or closer to a 360 degree squeeze if I need the maximum elevation from the bag. I place the buttstock against my clavicle, directly under my right ear. This promotes a fairly comfy neck position for me, almost a vertical neck alignment. If the buttstock was in my true shoulder pocket (like I do with a shotgun), it would force me to roll my head and neck way over to the right, and I can't stay in prone all that long in that position.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Frank squeezes the bean bag side-to-side (3-to-9 o'clock), essentially trapping the buttstock with the bag, plus he tends to touch the buttstock with a finger or two to help trap the stock.

That's exactly how I'm squezzing my rear bag, 3-9 with my index finger against the stock.

Been using this bag for quite awhile, prefer the larger size, couldn't go back to a smaller bag. It somewhat supports my shoulder also. The WeiBad rear bag Rifles Only offers is about the same size.

http://3gungear.corecommerce.c...l-Shmooshie-p55.html

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Been using this bag for quite awhile, prefer the larger size, couldn't go back to a smaller bag. It somewhat supports my shoulder also. The WeiBad rear bag Rifles Only offers is about the same size.

Definitely bigger bags than I'm using. I did a little research on them last night, but would like your feedback:
- How much do they weigh? Some of the big bags I've fondled in stores are fairly heavy, likely depending on the type of poly beads used.

- Are these bags "squishy" or "firm" in feel?

- Are the bags filled fairly full, or is there room to move the fill around quite a bit?

- How adaptable are they to different elevation needs at the buttstock? In other words, say a variation of 2" to 4" to 6" (or whatever) of buttstock distance to the ground.

- Do you also bring a smaller bag at the T3 Ranch competition, or does the one bag handle all your needs?

How does the 6x47 hybrid compare to the standard 6x47? Any idea how much additional case capacity?

Regarding F-Class....

Wasn't the original idea for F-Class EXACTLY so that old geezers could shoot HP again? Mats, bipods, etc to make it easier for older competitors. Thought I read that someplace.

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Definitely bigger bags than I'm using. I did a little research on them last night, but would like your feedback:
- How much do they weigh? Some of the big bags I've fondled in stores are fairly heavy, likely depending on the type of poly beads used.

- Are these bags "squishy" or "firm" in feel?

- Are the bags filled fairly full, or is there room to move the fill around quite a bit?

- How adaptable are they to different elevation needs at the buttstock? In other words, say a variation of 2" to 4" to 6" (or whatever) of buttstock distance to the ground.

- Do you also bring a smaller bag at the T3 Ranch competition, or does the one bag handle all your needs?

Guessing 1/4 lb?

Squishy compared to sand filled bag, but can cinch down the ends and get it plenty firm.

About 90% full.

Flat about 2 1/2". Cinched both ends 4-4 1/2", standing on end 6".

Only bag I use at matches. The less inventory to keep track of the better for me.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
How does the 6x47 hybrid compare to the standard 6x47?

FN in MT

Didn't make myself very clear with the pictures, 6BR and 6X47 loaded with Berger 105 Hybrids.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
How does the 6x47 hybrid compare to the standard 6x47?

FN in MT

Didn't make myself very clear with the pictures, 6BR and 6X47 loaded with Berger 105 Hybrids.

And I have been around the block enough I should have figured it out. LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
How does the 6x47 hybrid compare to the standard 6x47? Any idea how much additional case capacity?

Regarding F-Class....

Wasn't the original idea for F-Class EXACTLY so that old geezers could shoot HP again? Mats, bipods, etc to make it easier for older competitors. Thought I read that someplace.

FN in MT

Correct. F-class is named after the eponymous George Farquharson, a long time (now passed away) Canadian fullbore shooter who petitioned the DCRA to let him continue to shoot his match rifle on a bipod with a scope in his advancing age. The DCRA accepted, named the discipline after him and the discipline grew quickly and came down south of the border where it was sanctioned by the NRA in 2007. F-class is shot in many countries around the world and the World's is every 4 years, the next one being in 2017 at Ottawa's Connaught range.

The discipline changed some to allow more calibers and front rests in F-Open but F-TR remains close to the original concept.

Would you guys quit all this "old man's game" talk please?


I get my rear end handed to me equally by old farts and juniors.

Equally.

quote:

Originally posted by md-lucky:
Would you guys quit all this "old man's game" talk please?

I get my rear end handed to me equally by old farts and juniors.

Equally.

Tell me about it. I just turned 56 so I'm probably somewhere in the middle, age wise, of the group that's been haunting this thread. But I have one really screwed up knee courtesy of a long-ago football injury, so the steel matches that some of you seem to be having so much fun with (which require some walking over uneven ground) and all the run-and-gun stuff (which I did a fair amount of when I was younger) are off the table for me now. So other than bench shooting, I'm left with the occasional prone match, either the old-school style with a coat and sling or - that's right - F class.

I WAS going to go shoot a belly match this weekend up in Puyallup, but it looks now like I'm going to have to stay home and take care of an ailing dog instead. Yeah I'm a little cranky about it because this is one match I look forward to all year (even though I also regularly get my hat handed to me by 16 year old girls).

Well junior, let me explain why you get your hat handed to you.

If you look closely at your avatar, I would suggest that you try to aim about 2 and half lines right and 1/8 MOA down.

Heh. I remember that match well. That avatar is almost an exact reproduction of the first of two sitting rapid fire strings. After looking at the first one I thought "Ok, I'm doing something to my position during the reload that's pushing the group out the left. So, this time I'll hold off to the right to compensate after the reload." IOW, I did exactly what you suggested. And the 2nd group of the 2nd string went. . . exactly where I aimed it. So the 2nd target looked like a mirror image of the first. I went home thoroughly frustrated that day.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:

I WAS going to go shoot a belly match this weekend up in Puyallup, but it looks now like I'm going to have to stay home and take care of an ailing dog instead. Yeah I'm a little cranky about it because this is one match I look forward to all year (even though I also regularly get my hat handed to me by 16 year old girls).

Oh man!

I'm actually making the 500 mile 7.5 hour drive over for this one..

Too bad you can't make it. Anyone else going to be there? It's "only" 600 yards but I have heard really good things about the range and folks who help put this one together.