Fouling 22lr barrels has been discussed here and there. I shot only RWS family ammo yesterday to minimize fouling issues while switching between loads. Even then I find some ammo picky, for example R50 and R100 in the RWS line. R100 is among the least tolerant of another ammo's fouling properties.

The following is my first shots with R100 after shooting R50. This is a 6-inch plate at 107 yards, wind from my 4-5 o'clock. The first group is the vertically-strung center group. I held center of plate, and corrected for wind by holding between right edge and about an inch off plate. My technique was good -- vertical stringing was from fouling. 1.4" vertical and .6" horizontal variation.

The second 5-round group is at the top of the plate. I held right edge of plate, placing the crosshairs even with the bottom of the bolt. I didn't attempt to correct for wind, as I only wanted to have consistent vertical. .5" vertical and 1.3" horizontal variation.

Had I transitioned from an Eley or Lapua product to R100, I suspect 10-15 fouling rounds would have been necessary in order to foul the barrel and stabilize vertical.

I'm still working to trim the herd of 22lr ammo types. Yesterday's targets were at 107, 133, 148, 172, 203, and 243 yards. I was shooting more for vertical than horizontal, but the new NF scope makes compensating for wind easier. At least when I read the wind correctly. Eye kneed hookt on fonix 4 wynde reedin.

My basic metric is if a load can maintain less than 1 MOA vertical, not an easy feat in the terrain and swirling winds where I shoot. For the 6 distances, the number of 5-round targets under 1 MOA:

0 - Norma Match
2 - Geco Match
1 - RWS Target Rifle
4 - RWS Rifle Match
6 - RWS Special Match
4 - RWS R100
I had only 4 rounds left of RWS R50, so no results there.

Similar to Lapua's line, my rifle (with me pulling the trigger) doesn't seem to benefit from RWS' most expensive product lines. Next time out I intend to run through my stash of Eley's product line in one day.

Here's RWS Special Match at 172 yards. Five rounds in .8" vertical with 1.3" horizontal. Effective wind values of 4-6 mph from the right, which means I was holding a bit too much wind.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fritz,

Nice shooting fritz, ain't nothin wrong with your gun!

Received two barrels from jelrod1 today, 4th and 5th Dasher barrels he's chambered for me. Asked him to mark them #4/#5. Fun stuff! Have one of the barrels mounted up ready to go. Will try to work up a load this week, maybe shoot a match on Saturday with it if the weather cooperates. fritz, Saturdays match is at Fort Carson.

On Dasher, on Dancer, on Prancer....
Nice barrels!
You mean them thar barrels actually wear out? Whodathunkit.

I'm in for the Fort Carson match. Now if the weather just cooperates.

Yeah thanks, the Kimber shoots well. Definitely smaller than my 6.5 Creed rifle, so it's not the ideal trainer. I think your and Alpine's 40x trainers are easier to shoot. I really like what jelrod1 did with them. Trying really hard to shoot what I own and not pour money down the rabbit hole for new toys.

Well, just about ready to go on the new rimfire. Attached a short rail section and have the Atlas mounted up. Adjusted the trigger to a similar break to the bigger boys. While I think this is going to be a fun rifle it's not the ideal trainer. As Fritz stated the bolt throw is never going to mimic a full sized rifle. I'll use this gun to get to get more trigger time. However a 40X project in the future isn't out of the question.

Most of the test ammo has shown up with one more delivery to go. Raining today and then it's back to work so no firing this week. Looking into that target that Offgrid posted about a few pages back.

Greetings. I have a quick question. I have no experience with long range shooting, but will have the opportunity to try soon, shooting steel. I hand load and have some 140 grain .264 bullets with an approximate ballistic coefficient of .526, which will be loaded to about 2700 fps out of my rifle.

How far out is such a load/projectile adequate to maintain 2 MOA, assuming mild conditions and capable rifle/shooter? Thank you for any help.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Brother,

Brother, lots of variables. Bullet, altitude/temperature and/or density altitude, etc.

Suggest you go here, it will give you exactly what you're asking for based on your environmental conditions.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Good luck, shooting long range is fun and addicting.

Cool site; thanks Alpine.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:
Brother, lots of variables. Bullet, altitude/temperature and/or density altitude, etc.

Suggest you go here, it will give you exactly what you're asking for based on your environmental conditions.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Good luck, shooting long range is fun and addicting.

quote:

Originally posted by Brother:
How far out is such a load/projectile adequate to maintain 2 MOA

Brother, as Alpine stated, your starting point will be a good ballistic calculator (and JBM is one of those). External ballistics is well understood, at least as long as the bullet stays supersonic. Once it slows to trans-sonic speeds (at around 1340fps or so), things will become more complicated. But for the supersonic portion of the bullet's travel, you should be able to trust the ballistic models (provided your input parameters like BC and muzzle speed are accurate).

But to answer your question, there's more to consider than just ballistics. For example: what is the shooter's ability to read the wind correctly (speed and direction)? What is the inherent accuracy of the rifle? How accurate is the distance to target? And many more. To see how these things could impact your likelihood to hit the target, have a look at the Applied Ballistics calculator website.

Punch in your bullet and rifle data. The resulting "drop table" should be close or identical to what JBM spit out. But scroll down to the "Weapon Employment Zone Analysis" section, and you can easily see how your wind and range estimation skills, rifle precision, or the quality of your reloads (in terms of SD on muzzle velocity) can have a significant impact on your likelihood to hit a target at distance.

E26R-40-BSE, I see what you mean, and thank you for the link and information. Lots to learn. I will begin. Tom

Interesting local match today near Fort Carson Army installation, essentially a PRS-ish match on a square range. Winner shot 52/60, offgrid and I limped home with 41 & 42. Can’t quit my day job yet.

1st stage – maybe 10” round at 595 yards. Shooting from a “roof”, 3 shots from the left side with both feet on the ground. 4 shots from the center of the ramp of the roof with both feet on the roof. 3 shots from the right side of the roof, both feet on the ground, shooting left handed. 3 minute time limit.

2nd stage – IPSC at 295 yards. 2 shots from standing, 2 shots from kneeling, 2 shots from sitting, 2 shots from unsupported prone, 2 shots from supported prone. 2.5 minute time limit.

3rd stage – Five plates at 380, 485, 640, 780, & 1060 yards. Shoot prone from the top of a picnic table. Grab random face-down cards from a table 10 yards behind picnic table, cards have the target number. With target number known, run back to picnic table, two shots on the given target number on the card. Run back to table with cards, grab another card with a different target number, run back to table, fire twice at that target. Repeat until all 5 targets are engaged. 3 minute time limit.

4th stage – Six prairie dog poppers at 180, 301, 330, 380, 485, & 640 yards. Shoot near to far, shoot prone from the top of a picnic table, must hit a target to move on to the next. 12 round maximum, 3 minute time limit.

5th stage – 5 target KYL (know your limits) rack at 320 yards. Eight rounds maximum, 2 minute time limit. Individual rounds of ammo placed on a table 10 yards back, shooting from prone on the ground, must run back and forth to table for each individual round of ammo.

6th stage – 3 targets at 320, 345, & 618 yards. Shoot from a tripod, set a bit too high to be a solid shooting position, only packs or bags to develop a stable shooting position. 3 shots at each target, 2.5 minute time limit.

Breezes were minimal, which was nice. Smaller targets were hard to see, which wasn’t so nice. Fun times, and I’ll shoot this challenging match again. Good shooting with offgrid and most of our squad for the April PRS match in Albuquerque.

Sounds like an interesting match. 295 yards standing, yikes. Don't think my frame could handle that very well.

Still immersed in getting this .22lr project wrapped up. Ordered a rimfire steel target today. Starting to think we need a dedicated rimfire thread. Some of the info in here is pure gold tho. Fritz's ammo breakdown is awesome.

Good shooting with you fritz, fun and challenging match. Match director did a great job setting up the stages on a "sguare" range. Tough day for this shooter! Couldn't get still, one of those days. Happy to get on the 1060yd target and first round hits on the all prairie dogs, that 5th dog was tough to see. Fun twist he added to the KYL rack, running back and forth... I was a huffing and puffing a little on that last shot, reticle bouncing, RO counting down my time, miss. Nice job cleaning it fritz! Definitely shoot this match again.

So often gun enthusiast website threads emphasize equipment discussions. Lookie what I just bought. I recommend buying this or that. Of course you need two of those.

Offgrid, Alpine, and I (among others) realize from competition that once a certain level of equipment is attained, shooting skills determine how highly we place on the leader board. Based on my quick look of the rifles on the rack at yesterday's match, few shooters had a noticeable equipment advantage over the others.

The top banana shooters estimated wind better.
They built more stable positions, for when prone wasn't allowed.
They shot just fast enough to get all their rounds off.
They dialed elevation (or held elevation) correctly.
They shot at the correct targets, and moved efficiently from one target to the next at stages.
They didn't get rattled when things weren't going swimmingly.

It's pretty easy to post an artsy-craftsy picture of my new firearm, with a carefully arranged background.

It's pretty humbling to post a picture of my latest score, which probably sucks. Or a video of my futzing around with support bags, struggling to get into a good position on a barrier, while the clock is ticking down, and to hear the RO state "no call" instead of "impact" after a shot. I think we all can become better shooters by concentrating more on the process of shooting, and less on the toys in our safes.

Here's an "artsy-craftsy" pic of my .17hmr with the makeover I completed today. Mostly spare and donated parts with the exception of the Boyd's stock. Taking it north this week. I will post my sucky results!

Older Savage 93R-17 non-Accutrigger action
Tuned and shimmed factory trigger
Bead blasted and coated with Norrell's MolyResin
Bushnell Elite 10x
TPS donor rings (thanks jlemmy)
Bottom metal, bolt handle and rail base by DIP
Boyd's Varmint Hunter in nutmeg



image hosting over 5mb

screen shot windows 7

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

It's pretty humbling to hear the RO state "no call" instead of "impact" after a shot.

That's not humbling, it's fucking INFURIATING.

If I didn't hit it, then the ROs need to STFU. People wear ear pro, and if I hear ANY noise out of the RO's mouth, I'm assuming he said "Impact" because none of them yell loud enough and they all mumble like they've got a mouth full of.. Well, you know.


And before you all dogpile me, yes, I've RO'd. I yell LOUDLY and CLEARLY. And if you don't hit, I don't speak. The only thing you'll hear from me while on the clock is "IMPACT!" "CEASE FIRE!" or "TIME!"

Anything else from an RO is unprofessional and distracting.

Anybody tried Bix n Andy triggers?

I just ordered two of the new TacSport triggers. Adjustable down as far as 10oz, two stage. $255 each.

They are expected to start shipping in April.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
.....Anything else from an RO is unprofessional and distracting.

That's your opinion.

I participated in a wide variety of sports growing up, trying to find my niche. Football, basketball, baseball, track, volleyball, fast pitch softball, soccer, skiing, golf, bicycle racing. I got so used to the noise of football and basketball games that I could virtually tune out extraneous noise, focus on teammates, and concentrate on the task at hand. Golf is one of those games where one's level of concentration is easily determined. Yet there's this stigma of making any kind of loud noise during a golf game, even by the announcers in a glass-enclosed booth four holes away from the player. Some of my favorite golf courses are directly under the landing pattern for Denver International Airport and not far from the Buckley Air Field runways, where even louder F-16s practice touch and go during the weekend. None of that noise bothers me.

When I shoot sporting clays my squad mates can talk smack, heckle me all they want, cheer on guys at the next station -- I don't care. I'm focusing on my task at hand. Besides, shooting guns is loud. Really loud in the case of sporting clays tourneys, where it can sound like a machine gun gathering if shooting stations are set closely to each other.

If an RO in a precision rifle match states things like -- miss at 4 o'clock, no call, hit, nice shot, you hit the strap, you suck, impact, don't quit yer day job, your fly is unzipped, you frickin' rock, or audibly breaks wind -- I don't care. It may be feedback that I can use. Or not. Regardless, it's time to move on to the next task at hand, and that is my task and my task alone.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
.....Anything else from an RO is unprofessional and distracting.

That's your opinion.

I participated in a wide variety of sports growing up, trying to find my niche. Football, basketball, baseball, track, volleyball, fast pitch softball, soccer, skiing, golf, bicycle racing. I got so used to the noise of football and basketball games that I could virtually tune out extraneous noise, focus on teammates, and concentrate on the task at hand. Golf is one of those games where one's level of concentration is easily determined. Yet there's this stigma of making any kind of loud noise during a golf game, even by the announcers in a glass-enclosed booth four holes away from the player. Some of my favorite golf courses are directly under the landing pattern for Denver International Airport and not far from the Buckley Air Field runways, where even louder F-16s practice touch and go during the weekend. None of that noise bothers me.

When I shoot sporting clays my squad mates can talk smack, heckle me all they want, cheer on guys at the next station -- I don't care. I'm focusing on my task at hand. Besides, shooting guns is loud. Really loud in the case of sporting clays tourneys, where it can sound like a machine gun gathering if shooting stations are set closely to each other.

If an RO in a precision rifle match states things like -- miss at 4 o'clock, no call, hit, nice shot, you hit the strap, you suck, impact, don't quit yer day job, your fly is unzipped, you frickin' rock, or audibly breaks wind -- I don't care. It may be feedback that I can use. Or not. Regardless, it's time to move on to the next task at hand, and that is my task and my task alone.

Your mention of irrelevant sports notwithstanding, it's not my opinion. It's how things need to be done.

Also, A) providing feedback about missed shots is illegal in PRS (and should be in other matches as well) and B) you must have missed my remark about ROs not speaking loudly enough to be heard through foam plugs by the competitors.

Because of those two factors, ROs must be limited on what they are allowed to say so as to not cause confusion for the shooter. A perfect example:

You're on a stage with unlimited round count. You cannot move to the next target until you hit the current target. You're wearing foam plugs, with guys shooting braked rifles 15 yards to your left, and 15 yards to your right.

The RO yells a one syllable word that is unintelligible through your foam earplugs. Did he say "HIT" or did he say "MISS"?

Another example stage is one with 5 targets, and you MUST move on if you make a first round impact. If you miss, you can shoot the same target again for a lesser point value. You shoot. The RO mutters some unintelligble one-syllable word. What did he say?

That's exactly the type of bullshit that ROs need to NOT do. "IMPACT" should be the only word out of their mouth until "TIME", or in the unlikely event, "CEASE FIRE".

It's not just my opinion, it's damn near everyone I've ever spoken to at every PRS match I've ever been to. When you're on the clock, and a tight clock at that, you shouldn't have to be wondering if the RO called an impact or not. Communication needs to be clear and concise. Period.

Your sporting clays tourney is also an extremely poor parallel to draw. Targets come out, you shoot at each of them once, hit or miss. There aren't complex rules involved that determine when you move to a different target.

I'm happy you have your own opinion. Mine is different.

I have a pretty solid understand PRS rules and understand sanctioned matches will run by those rules. Not every match is PRS sanctioned, and I have no issues with that.