Based on these recommendations, he will be at the top of the list.

Bruce

I Recently purchased a Nightforce ATACR F1 7-35x scope. This week I mounted it to my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action. This caused a ripple effect on optics -- my 308 bolt action was upgraded to a NF ATACR F1 5-25x, and my 6.5CM AR-10 was upgraded to a NF NXS F1 3.5-15x. Between ranch duties and a short winter's day, I had just enough time to get good zeros at 100 yards and bang some steel at 377 to 723 yards.

The 7-35x is a great scope. The glass appears to be just slightly clearer than the 5-25x. At higher magnification, I find the 7-35x parallax settings to be pretty darn sensitive -- more sensitive than the 5-25x. The clearest picture seems to be in the 30x to 32x ballpark, and the eyebox is a little more forgiving than it is at 35x. This is going to be a great scope with the 6.5CM.

My 308 is a nicer rifle to shoot with the 5-25x ATACR glass. I'm pleased to state that even after 5,000 rounds, the rifle's Bartlein barrel is still shooting well. It did a 5-round group of .5" at 100 yards with FGMM 175.

Records show that I hadn't shot my Black Rain 6.5CM AR-10 in two years, in part due to glass that wasn't suited for the rifle. The 3.5-15x scope makes it a fun rifle to shoot. My skills with an AR-15 have improved over the past two years, so I wanted to see if they transferred to an AR-10. And to a certain extent -- yes, they do. But I still need more time behind the AR10 -- there's a boatload of things going on during the recoil cycle which can compromise accuracy.

Anyway, while confirming a 100-yard zero, I put 4 rounds of 140 AMax into a 1/4" bughole. I shouldn't have paused to look at the purdy little group, because in my excitement I shanked shot #5 to the right, producing a 7/8" group. Rats -- on to steel. In 8-12 mph winds from my 3 o'clock, I had solid first round hits on steel at 377, 495, 552, and 723 yards.

So stayed on the 723 yard target, producing four impacts in about 4" of vertical variation. I got up to look and my purdy group through the spotting scope. Back on the gun, I shanked shot #5 high, increasing vertical to a total of 7". Rats -- I need more time behind an AR10. But I'm pretty pleased with the rifle. With more work on my part, this thing has potential for gas gun PRS-type matches.

Received two barrels from jelrod1 chambered in 6BR Ackley Improved yesterday or BRA for short. Bartlein heavy palma's, .236 bore, 7.5 twist, both finished at 26". Got them both screwed on, a dab of anti-seize on the threads, torque them up.... easy peasy. Look forward to working up a load, see how they shoot. Couple others around me are shooting BRA's, have their loads. Guessing 30.2-30.8 H4895/105 Hybrids. In every 6mm barrel I've shot, Hybrids prefer a .010-.015 jump, so no messing around much with seating depth. First have to fire-form, simply use a "textbook" 6BR load. From my experience ff'ing brass for the Dasher most likely will be very accurate. I plan on shooting a square range match or two ff'ing, rounds won't go to waste. I won a local match ff'ing brass for the Dasher FF'ing the BRA will be easier compared to the Dasher. Like all Ackley Improves, the original case headspaces off the chamber shoulder, load and shoot.




Dasher, BRA, 6BR





BRA, there's a joke there somewhere..... fritz?!

Something about the fire-forming match and "training BRA". It will come to me

Bruce

Very nice offgrid.

I chuckle every time a grown man asks me what to do with a bra....


I fire form with 90 berger BT because I have so many left over from my 10 twist 6BR. Those and XBR shoot really well.

offgrid -- 'sup brah. Looking forward to your results with the new chamber.

jelrod1 -- I'm supposed to have my new Manners stock in hand by the end of December. Once it arrives I can send the stock and the Remy 40X rifle your way, and let you do your magic.

Fritz, thanks for that little write up on the ATACR 7-35! I'm saving for one for my 300 Win, and I needed a reminder of why.

I'm patiently waiting for my 6 BRA to be finished. I went with a 7 twist Hawk Hill because I wanted to shoot the 115 DTAC's. It should be finished by the end of January.

Fritz I own two of the 7-35 F1's with Tremor3 reticles. Getting the parallax adjusted correctly almost drove me insane. As you know it's a combination of adjusting the ocular as well as the parallax. Another shooter who owned one suggested turning on the illuminated reticle in a dark room and adjusting the ocular focus and getting that set up correctly first. I was on my last leg with my first 7-35 until I tried that technique.

Offgrid, the two barrels jelrod did for you....did you have to send the receiver with the barrels or are they REMAGE types...or is there some other way that he did the barrels for your guns because he has worked on your receivers before and had the measurements.??

I ask cause I'm thinking of replacing my 243 barrel with a REMAGE barrel wen it goes south...

Between buying a Bighorn action and having my 700 action trued, which will result in better accuracy, at the end of the day. Less cost?
Assume both are going to Jelrod1 for chambering and fitting with a new barrel in 6CM or 6BRA.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Between buying a Bighorn action and having my 700 action trued, which will result in better accuracy, at the end of the day.

It's possible that a trued 700 action could get pretty close to the accuracy of a Bighorn action, especially in the hands of someone like jelrod. There are a few custom actions to consider if you plan to go that way. I believe Bighorn has a quality action that costs a little less than the ones in offgrid's rifles, if you're looking to save some coin.

I have two Defiance actions in my rifles, and plan to buy a third shortly. Alpine has a few Defiance actions, too. There are shooters here who can describe and compare custom actions better than I can.

IMO it takes a really talented shooter to see a difference in accuracy among the better actions.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Offgrid, the two barrels jelrod did for you....did you have to send the receiver with the barrels or are they REMAGE types...or is there some other way that he did the barrels for your guns because he has worked on your receivers before and had the measurements.??

I ask cause I'm thinking of replacing my 243 barrel with a REMAGE barrel wen it goes south...

Sent him the actions for the first barrels only. After that drop ship barrels to him. Barrels are shouldered, not barrel nut.....

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Between buying a Bighorn action and having my 700 action trued, which will result in better accuracy, at the end of the day. Less cost?
Assume both are going to Jelrod1 for chambering and fitting with a new barrel in 6CM or 6BRA.

Bruce

It's not only about potential better accuracy, it's also about longevity and how a custom action cycles. Way back I started with a R700, had it trued, chambered a 6.5 Creedmoor on a Kreiger barrel. Watched a local gunsmith true the action, surprised how far out of alignment it was, he took off quite a bit of material on one side of the face before it was straightened out. Action had about 2500rds on it before truing, another 2800rds as a 6.5CM. About a 1000rds into the 6.5CM the bolt lugs started to gall, quality of steel. I was bitten buy the LR bug, knew I was going to be shooting for a long time. Sold the barreled action with 2800rds showing the buyer the bolt lugs....sold it cheap. Bought a Bighorn action.

So what's your plans with all this? Shooting paper, matches, steel....?

RNshooter -- offgrid's Bighorn actions are the smoothest repeater actions I have ever shot or played with. I suspect it's a combination of the engineering from Bighorn, the high number of rounds down offgrid's rifles (plus a lot of dry fire), and having his trigger timed. The effort to lift offgrid's bolt is minimal -- maybe like a quick flick of a finger or two. With my Defiance actions I must grab the bolt to lift it -- definitely more effort to initiate cycling the bolt action.

I defer to offgrid for a better explanation.

Both Bighorn and Defiance actions lock up tightly and shoot accurately.

I plan on shooting F-Class. I haven't decided if it's going to be Open or F-T/R.

After chatting with Jelrod1, I am going to keep the 5R as is and just shoot it. I don't want to cannibalize it just for a pedestrian action and I'm too fond of it to sell it.

Which leaves us with a clean sheet of paper to start building a rifle. The Bighorn TLR sounds like a solid starting point especially since I can have barrels chambered for it without sending it in, per Jelrod1.

So, action, caliber, chassis, trigger. Lots of research to do and small piles of money to accumulate for each. I figure on spreading it out over 2019.

In the mean time, learn to load for the 308 and get some more time behind the rifle.
A while back, I took a 1 day reloading class from a guy that competes at very long range. He coached me through loading 10 rounds for my rifle with a recipe that he was sure it would like. It was spot on. Yesterday, I found those fired cases with the recipe so I know where I am starting out with load development.

I am excited about all of this.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I plan on shooting F-Class. I haven't decided if it's going to be Open or F-T/R.

After chatting with Jelrod1, I am going to keep the 5R as is and just shoot it. I don't want to cannibalize it just for a pedestrian action and I'm too fond of it to sell it.

Which leaves us with a clean sheet of paper to start building a rifle. The Bighorn TLR sounds like a solid starting point especially since I can have barrels chambered for it without sending it in, per Jelrod1.

So, action, caliber, chassis, trigger. Lots of research to do and small piles of money to accumulate for each. I figure on spreading it out over 2019.

In the mean time, learn to load for the 308 and get some more time behind the rifle.
A while back, I took a 1 day reloading class from a guy that competes at very long range. He coached me through loading 10 rounds for my rifle with a recipe that he was sure it would like. It was spot on. Yesterday, I found those fired cases with the recipe so I know where I am starting out with load development.

I am excited about all of this.

Bruce

Hi Bruce, in March, I organized a intro to competition class for our club, followed by a wind clinic at 1000 yards. One of the things we provide to each of the 70-some people in attendance was a manual that we put together about various aspects of competition: from pulling targets, acting as scorers, shooting a competition, to wind basics, some strategies and also an equipment list from several shooters.

I have this in .pdf format if you are interested. It's a pretty big file, 5MB.

If you're interested, let me know.

In F-class, a very popular action for F-open or F-TR is the Kelbly Panda F-class action. That's what I built my current rifle on. I went to Bighorn to compare prices and specs; I see the price for the TL3 is $1250. That compares advantageously to the Kebly at $1,500.

I see they are offered in eihter right or left bolt and port. I am a rightie and my Panda is set right port, right bolt. I can use my right hand to cycle the bolt, remove the spent cartridge, load the next round and so on, without ever getting out of position. Some righties like a right bolt, left port and the load the ammo with their left hand, the morons. :-)

You have choices to make for the specs of your action, make sure you consider them wisely.

That intro manual would be extremely useful.
Yes, please

I will look at the Panda as well as considering which configuration for the action.

So much to learn.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
So much to learn.

Actually, target shooting boils down to just two simple concepts -- which John Wayne clearly stated many years ago in the movie The Undefeated....

"Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon; windage and elevation."

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Between buying a Bighorn action and having my 700 action trued, which will result in better accuracy, at the end of the day. Less cost?
Assume both are going to Jelrod1 for chambering and fitting with a new barrel in 6CM or 6BRA.

Bruce

If the smith does his job you're not going to see any difference in accuracy. You'll get some nice features on a custom action like an integral recoil lug which allows you to switch barrels easily with barrel vice and action wrench.

Remington 700's are mass produced and the bolt raceways aren't always true. This results in a lot of slop between the bolt and the raceway. If you're going to get it trued you might as well get a PTG bolt that eliminates the slop. At this stage there are better options available.

Nikonuser-

Why the Panda over the TLR? The main difference I see is that the Panda is aluminum and the TLR is steel. Is shaving a few ounces to make weight a consideration for the top guys?

Any difference as far as safety with maximum charge loads?

Other doodads to differentiate them, one from the other?

Bruce