quote:

Originally posted by jlemmy:
Let me add a question if I may. Optics for a .22LR. I see some of you are using FFP scopes. I get the fact that it's consistent with their bigger brothers. Also makes sense as a trainer function. That said it would seem that a rimfire would be better suited to SFP and high magnification. It also wouldn't really require tons of adjustment range. Any thoughts or guidance would be appreciated. Trying to come up with a plan.

Also working on a plan. One that would be easier to accomplish without a day job and with a PowerBall jackpot....

My Kimber 22lr sporter rifle is quite accurate. It is trigger time but is a substantially different platform than my precision bolt action rifles. I feel the Leupold VX-III 2.5-8X SFP duplex reticle glass on the Kimber is the primary limiting factor on the rifle. Fixed parallax at either 100 or 150 yards isn't the best, either. With the help of Leupold's exposed turrets and some redneck shimming, the scope now dials elevations to 36 MOA (~10.5 mils), which gets me to 250 yards with my 22lr match ammo. However, no zero stop, so if I get lost in 15 MOA rotations I bottom out and dial backwards to my 50-yard zero.

The duplex reticle has heavy lines at 3 MOA up/down/right/left on 8 power. Not the most exacting reticle for wind holds, especially given that at 200 yards I need 9 MOA windage for a 10mph cross wind. Definitely some Kentucky windage going on.

I'm looking into a different scope, if Christmas sales pop up. A Nightforce SHV 4-14X ffp is high on my list, but I need to play with and look through one first. For my primary purpose of mimicking a steel match at relatively short ranges with small targets, ffp reticle will be better. If my primary goal was to punch little cloverleafs at 50 yards, a high magnification sfp scope might work.

I haven't ruled out a 40X trainer, but it's not going to happen immediately. Doing a 40X trainer right, so it mimics my GAP rifles won't be cheap. New glass for the Kimber should allow me to determine its real capabilities. Down the road if the Kimber isn't cutting it as a trainer, the old VX-III glass goes back on the Kimber, and whatever new glass I get will goes to the 40X.

The Annie route is a viable option for a 22. My Kimber is likely comparable to an Annie 64 sporter, both in feel and accuracy. IMO the downside to the 22 sporters is their dramatically different magazine, as compared to a centerfire with an AICS-type DBM. The sporter rifles are a blast to shoot however, and they can be amazingly accurate.

Whats the opinion on the CZ-455 varmint?

Reasonable enough cost, money left for optics.

Thanks for the pics jlemmy. I'm between the bigger version of that scope and a hensoldt 4-16 NH1 locking turret at the moment. I can try one of those hensoldts on it and may just go that way. I'm sure the Swaro glass on the Z8s is great too though. Decisions decisions...

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
Whats the opinion on the CZ-455 varmint?

Reasonable enough cost, money left for optics.

Spoke with a buddy of mine about them. He and his dad compete in matches with their 455's. Didn't ask the exact style of the match's they shoot. Said one wears a fixed power Weaver and the other a fixed power Sightron. They stay pretty competitive getting as high as second place finishes. Seems to be pretty decent aftermarket support for them.

I've decided to go the turn key route. Placed an order for an Annie 1710 HB GRS Hybrid. Should get it in a month or so. Now the optic search has begun. Not really sure how much magnification will be required on the top end. Just going to use this to hone my trigger pulling skills. It will be shot out to 200 yards. Right now I'm looking at the Nightforce competition scopes. The Khales 10-50 isn't out of the question if I can get a good price. Swaro has one that tops out at 30x. Looked at some March offerings but still disturber by the one dealer thing. Anything else I should be looking at ?

Nice.

I have a 93r17 bull barrel sitting in the safe. Every year about this time I look at it and toss around the idea of a decent trigger and stock. It would certainly satisfy my requirements. It would be a nice cold weather project.

quote:

Originally posted by jlemmy:
Placed an order for an Annie 1710 HB GRS Hybrid.
It will be shot out to 200 yards.

Right now I'm looking at the Nightforce competition scopes. The Khales 10-50 isn't out of the question if I can get a good price. Swaro has one that tops out at 30x.

That should be a great rifle. Keep us updated with how it shoots.

Think about your target types before you choose scope, magnification, and reticle.

Consider bullet wind drift. At 5,000' DA even a 5mph cross breeze moves my Geco match bullets 2.8" at 100 yards, 6.0" at 150 yards, and 10.2" at 200 yards. If you're shooting blank steel targets, you will want some kind of reticle with hash marks for wind holds. If you're shooting paper targets with consistent dimensions (like a bullseye target with scoring rings), then the target will become your windage indicator. Many of the high magnification competition scopes are only offered with simple cross hair reticles.

Magnification -- my current 8x scope isn't cutting it while trying to print purdy cloverleafs in paper. Except for windage holds, it has done reasonably well with small and medium steel out to 250 yards. Nevertheless, I purchased a NF 4-14x ffp SHV, which the Kimber will soon wear. At longer distances it seems like a good idea to have high magnification, until you realize just how much breezes push the lowly 22lr round left/right/up/down. Zooming way in on a piece of steel means you might not catch subtle wind changes -- something I experienced last week when I shot Alpine's and offgrid's 40X trainers, with their relatively high magnification scopes.

Thanks Fritz for the food for thought. Back to work for a few days so I can stew on it a while.
Nightforce has the FCR-1 reticle in their 15-55 competition scope
Swaro has the 4W reticle in their 5-30

Think if I could just nail down a power range... It will be shot at steel targets but also paper. Depending on the mood

Will keep looking, thanks !

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Zooming way in on a piece of steel means you might not catch subtle wind changes -- something I experienced last week when I shot Alpine's and offgrid's 40X trainers, with their relatively high magnification scopes.

You know you could have turn the scope to a lower magnification, it's the knob in the front with the numbers For me the mirage was easy to see that day, shooting at that distance 230yds at 25X was good, clearly see the mirage speed up, slow down... Different conditions, different place maybe not at max. Worth noting I've been shooting 5-25 scopes for several years, comp bolt rifles/22. Tons of rounds near or at 25X. fritz has a 3-15 on his 6.5CM comp rifle, lower magnification on his AR's. No right or wrong here, we're both accustom to different magnification.

jlemmy, I have not looked through a Kahles 10-50. Looked through several Kahles 6-24's (good friend has 3 of them, he's a lefty the parallax knob on the top is a big deal for him) all have a bit of the chromatic aberration problem. The few variable March scopes I've looked through, didn't do anything for me. Haven't look through a NF Comp.

With a 22 you'll always be holding wind, most likely shooting at different magnification depending on condition, distance... For me a FFP is the only way to go. 5-25X serves me well. Guess if I had a 5-50X SFP, would only shoot at 50x, 25X or 12.5X. No doubt I would screw up a wind hold.

Look forward to your Anschutz range report.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
You know you could have turn the scope to a lower magnification, it's the knob in the front with the numbers

Huh, so that's what that knob does. Making notes....

Actually I generally don't like to play with other people's scopes much when I get behind them. I did adjust elevation on your scope, but likely nothing else. Given my glasses, our vision is a little different. I could see the mirage in your scope, but probably not with the clarity I could have by fiddling with it.

I probably should have concentrated on optics adjustments a bit more, but my primary goal was to see what the 40X trainer thingie was all about. I admit whole heartedly the 40X 22lr is uber cool.

My point to jlemmy is that too often we shooters get sucked into dialing to maximum magnification, when a more moderate level might be as good or even better. In the this case at high magnification my field of view was pretty tight on the target -- good for reading mirage but not so good for wind clues from vegetation. When I jumped back on my wimpy 8x scope, I had little feedback on mirage, but the wider field of view gave me great clues about grass and weed movement. If my head weren't so firmly planted in my backside, I would have clued into both wind indicators at the same time.

I agree with offgrid on the issues of wind holds on SFP scopes at any magnification other than a scope's calibrated magnification. This challenge became crystal clear to me the first steel match practice I did with a NF SFP NXS 5-22x scope.

How about a Sako Quad Range?

If I didn't go the 40X Repeater path, I would seriously consider the Sako. Plus you can get McMillan or Manners stocks for them.

Here's a deal on the Hide:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5552&t=15046292

Ordered a 1-piece bolt from PTG for the action I picked up last week. It arrived at the smith today and he pin-gauged it and told me to order a .697" bolt.

Sako extractor, PTG .062" firing pin assembly w/SS shroud, Sako extractor, 700 ejector. $303 delivered. Kind of expensive for an action that I only paid $185 for, but.. What can you do? I certainly don't want a factory Remington bolt, and I also don't want to spend $1400 for an action for a practice rifle, so.. I guess here I am. LOL

Still need a bolt knob. I'd really like a Defiance knob, but I don't see them listed separately on their website. I'll give Norm a call Monday and see if I can buy one.

ETA: Just ordered a Krieger 4 groove 1:7 .224 standard palma.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: exx1976,

Guys, thanks for the advice on .22LR optics. I'm starting to think perhaps I'm chasing too much magnification. One option I have is to pull the SFP off my .223 bolt action and use that. Then pick up say a Razor FFP for the .223.

Only so much in the play fund and recently did a big optics upgrade to another rifle. The Zeiss Diavari 6-24x 56 while not ideal for the rimfire may be the best route, at least for now. Will let me feel out the rifle and see what I'm lacking.

Hey guys - would you use Lake City or Lapua brass for a .223 Ackley trainer?

I found 223 on sale for $50/100, but I have like 2 5-gallon buckets of once fired LC. Need at least 500 pieces, so even the sale will set me back a bit..


Bueller... Bueller...

For my 223AI, I went the Lapua brass route, it was an easy decision to make because I bought some 500+ rounds of Lapua Match 223 with 69 Scenars for just under a dollar a round. Fire-formed it all in my old 223AI (SPS Tactical) while training. It was crazy accurate even while fire-forming.

The LC brass that has the NATO cross is very good brass, but has a thicker case, and you will find you will sacrifice case capacity with it.

My 223AI has a Bartlein 1-7.7 M24 contour barrel cut to 24". I'm getting 2950-fps shooting either the new Sierra 77-TMKs or the Berger 80.5 Full Bores using 25.9-gr of Varget With Fed 205M primers.

Has anyone heard anything about the new BigHorn Tactical action besides what is on their website? It has a lot of interesting features, and potentially could take pre-fit barrels if I understand correctly. Also could use either AICS or AW mags - which would be preferred? Any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by jlemmy:
Guys, thanks for the advice on .22LR optics. I'm starting to think perhaps I'm chasing too much magnification.

Only so much in the play fund and recently did a big optics upgrade to another rifle.

I totally understand how optics drains the bank account, especially since the following pictures may be among the last with the 2-8X Leupold on my 22lr. The Leupold's reticle, glass quality, and fixed parallax provide more than a few challenges on paper targets. Nevertheless, when the stars are aligned, 8X can do OK on steel.

I shot yesterday to beat a weekend storm. Set steel at 75, 100, 150, 200, and 250 yards. Not on a special mission like prior weeks, just a little trigger time. I was working with ammo types that I have only a couple of boxes, so after confirming elevations required for the distances, I generally worked short to long with one shot per target. In the mid-morning breezes were from my 3-4 o'clock, shifting to 5-6 o'clock by early afternoon, changing to 7-8 o'clock with the arrival of the front. Light was very flat with the heavy clouds.

This is Eley Club on an 8" gong at 150 yards. I held on or just right of the right edge -- 4" of wind drift, or roughly 3 mph breeze. Vertical variation was .9" making it one of the better targets I've done at this distance. A blessing of light and consistent wind. But think about 4" of bullet drift at only 150 yards.



A few minutes later at 250 yards, same ammo. Scope elevation maxed out at 36 MOA, needing a bit more. Held 3 MOA right of target's right edge, lateral bullet drift of 13" to 16", which translates to 4-5 mph breeze. Vertical variation was only 2.5" making it one of my better targets at 250, however I know some of that vertical was due to wind.



What I'm saying is that 40X scope allows us to aim at either the left or right ass cheek of the gnat on the target, but misreading the wind with a 22lr will kick our bullets completely out of the scoring zone.

Makes sense Fritz, thanks for illustrating the point. You're doing pretty damn well with an 8x optic. Think I'll pull the scope off my .223 for the rimfire. You have me convinced I don't need the uber magnification optic. It has the standard mil-dot reticle. While not ideal it has some holding ability.

A couple friends bought this 22LR KYL rack. Haven't shot at one yet, look forward to it. Set it up at 50yds, work down to that 1/4' target.... fun stuff.

http://www.scout.com/military/...ds-150-plus-shipping

Had the action sent to Area 419 in OH for a side bolt release. $125 to be done on a CNC with a Defiance bolt stop? Sounds fair. There's even a video of his process on his website, they look great.

Bought some other odds-n-ends. Seekins 30MOA scope base was on sale at Midway for $69, and a bunch of .223 loading blocks that were on clearance for $3.84.


This is one of my favorite things about building a rifle - since you have to wait so long for some of the parts already, you can take your time and hunt for stuff on sale/clearance.


Let me know if anyone sees a Forester 223AI ultra micrometer seater or a Redding type S FL bushing die on sale!

Walker Draw Match is on for June 3rd, other than the killer humidity and Chigger bites, the last Walker Draw match was a blast. Looking forward to heading to Nebraska again.