I picked up a Geissele blem on PSA 14.5 pinned it, I had a Colt lower dropped in a ALG, with a used Aim Point M4s. BCM bolt carrier group. Rifle does everything I wanted. Ran a LPVO 1-6 Vortex 500 yards
easy. I think total was less than $1500.
Or go to
bluemountainsupplyllc
They are having a sale on Colt trade ins
Hope this helps

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

OP,
You can't go wrong with a BCM 16" mid-length.

While I don't own a BCM and haven't been in the market for an AR for a number of years, BCM was a go-to brand for ever it seems and may still be? Since you didn't mention a budget, get a BCM and spend time thinking about optics and start training.

Good luck.

BCM is still great quality and one of my top recommendations, but it isn't the no-brainer auto-recommend that it used to be, since their prices have crept up into the range of several other good brands. Previously, they were by far the best "bang for the buck" in ARs.

(Similar to Dan Wesson 1911s in recent years.)

Pulled the trigger on the Geissele last night. Should have it next week. The MRO is bound for eBay. I won't subject my SF friends to it via classifieds, if it's as bad as all that.

What's the take on the CQB models (1.5x16s, 1.5x24 and 2x20) of the ACOG? Anybody here tried one? Seems ACOGs are pretty tried and true?

If your eyes need the magnification, an ACOG is a great optic. That said, if you have an idea that 100 yards is going to be your max range, I would absolutely stick with a red dot. Even the "true 1x" prism style scopes have an eye box and need to have the diopter adjusted for your eye. Those aren't considerations with a red dot. I have a fried who swears by them and loves to point out how prolific they were in GWOT. I also have another friend who saw a fair bit of combat in Afghanistan and then some more in Syria, and he has a Holosun 510C on his personal rifle. Opinions on this one vary quite a bit.

If I had one AR and the thinking was that it would need to do everything I might need an AR for, it wouldn't have a prism or scope style optic on it. Not after giving both a reasonably fair shake. Red dot all the way. I can pretty reliably score hits on man sized silhouettes out to 300 yards with an 11.5" barreled AR, that's plenty good enough for defensive use.

Oh, and the suggested AEMS also has some parallax issues. They have mostly fixed that with the new AEMS X2 that came out a couple months ago, though. I have one of the older ones, and when benched, it's enough that I can chase a zero on a 5.56 rifle if I'm not consistent about cheek weld. I am going to relegate that one to an AR9 this coming year. Now, I really do like the design. Form factor is great, battery life is superb. It's most of what an Eotech EXPS is without having to worry about turning the thing on since it has shake awake. If you're going to shoot at the range, or gear up for a raid or something where you know you're going to be using your rifle, the Eotech is great. If you think you might need a rifle you can just grab and jack a round into the chamber and use in a hurry, then having to think about turning on your optic is one more thing I'd prefer to avoid, so the rifle I have mine on is purely set up for NV use. I didn't think the battery life stuff was an issue until I had to pop in a new battery for the second time in less than a year and one of those was finding it dead when I got to the range. My sample of one EXPS-3 says they still haven't solved the parasitic drain issue. I have a friend asking about buying it off me and I'm having a harder time telling him "no" with each successive request.

The throwaway answer is to just get whatever Aimpoint you can afford and be done with it. Nobody's going to find much of a flaw in that route, honestly.

An AR with offset red dot is not "Tacticool BS", so do not discount that as an option, paired with something like an ACOG along with the other's recommendations.

https://youtu.be/9reJDdeAjds?si=rWtZnm2gtweW86hu

Great view on the ACOG in my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
https://youtu.be/9reJDdeAjds?si=rWtZnm2gtweW86hu

Great view on the ACOG in my opinion

I was half way through watching that when I saw your post. That is compelling. The video on the prior page with the Green Beret talking about upright stance tracks with this one below.



And so having both some reach with an ACOG, and using the ACOG to bring your short range optic into the formula and up to stance height is super interesting (if not cheap). Embedding that link here too.



Now to go down the rabbit hole of RMR(RMO), RCR and SRO.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

I have the new and improved version and it's still junk.

Why do you say that? What's wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

I have the new and improved version and it's still junk.

Why do you say that? What's wrong?

It's talked about at length in the second video I posted on the last page.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

I have the new and improved version and it's still junk.

Why do you say that? What's wrong?

It's talked about at length in the second video I posted on the last page.

When I first installed the MRO on my BCM .300 blackout, I knew nothing about the parallax issues. I was trying to zero the optic and kept chasing a zero. I told myself "Myself, you SUCK!. You can't even get a consistent group at 50 freaking yards. You're worthless and weak!" Deep inside, I knew I wasn't that worthless and weak so I starting doing some research and found out these optics had issues. I read where the newer versions had been corrected. I checked and found out I had the latest version of the optic. I took it off and installed a Holosun AEMS and was quickly shooting nice tight groups. It's hard to believe Trijicon would sell something this bad. My experience with the AEMS has been good but it's a sample of one.

Well, in my shooting group, there's five that I know of, and they've been used a lot. The only issue reported so far is some minor parallax. Holosun really knocked it out of the park with that one.

For a "Short distance only (10-100ft focused)" defensive carbine just get an Aimpoint(preferably), or a SIG Romeo or Vortex if you want to save a bit of cash. An ACOG will be unnecessary bulk in that role.

If you're planning on shooting "defensively"? at 2-300yds, sure get an ACOG.

BCM and Daniel Defense is always my choice and recommendation.

quote:

Originally posted by m499:
For a "Short distance only (10-100ft focused)" defensive carbine just get an Aimpoint(preferably), or a SIG Romeo or Vortex if you want to save a bit of cash. An ACOG will be unnecessary bulk in that role.

If you're planning on shooting "defensively"? at 2-300yds, sure get an ACOG.

I think that's spot on, given those conditions I'd set earlier in this thread. But I'd set those thinking I had to trade off one vs. the other. If I can have both capabilities, having something that can work out to 200 years or more would be a very good capability to have.

My 11.5” has an Aimpoint T2 and Eotech 3x magnifier in Unity mounts. My next “step up” is a 16” with 4x ACOG and ACRO. I have not used one, but an Eotech with drop dots and magnifier sounds like a good compromise while prioritizing close range use.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
But I'd set those thinking I had to trade off one vs. the other. If I can have both capabilities, having something that can work out to 200 years or more would be a very good capability to have.

200 years is either a really long bullet flight, or a number of generations of hand-me-downs....Doh!

For your original listed distance of 10-100 feet, an unmagnified red dot probably makes the most sense. Or irons plus red dot, and likely no offset. You're looking for speed of getting sights on target -- nothing fancy.

Now if 200 yards or more comes into play, trade offs do occur. Zero magnification makes target identification challenging and point of impact observation virtually impossible. Fixed higher magnification is helpful at longer distances, but isn't the best with close targets. IMO 200+ yards is best served with a LPVO.

I think you need to carefully consider your primary objectives, then remain focused on the best tool(s) for those objectives. Whatever you do, don't support communism with buying Chinese products.

A lot of talk about ACOGs, which isnt my cup of tea. IMO, a red dot and magnifier or LPVO would serve you better for 200yds and in, hell, maybe even 300yds.

The glass on the ACOG is fucking crisp and they're built to last, but I've never really been able to dig in on them. By the time you get an offset or top mounted red, I think the LPVO is a far superior tool.

Definitely getting into the realm of tradeoffs and "there's no perfect, one-size-fits all solution" stuff. While an ACOG or LPVO gives great capability from 50 yards and out, there's the size, weight, and the fact that there really isn't a "true" 1x with them. Add in the eyebox, eye relief, and diopter adjustment stuff I mentioned earlier, and it just doesn't bring enough to the table for me in terms of most likely use to consider one for a "do everything" rifle. While you're giving up some range with a red dot, a magnifier goes a hell of a long way for bringing that back. Yes, you're adding some weight, but with throw lever mounts and no need to return to zero, one magnifier and mount turns any red dot rifle into one with a magnified optic in no time.

If you live out in the countryside and have a lot of wide open approaches to your house, I'd say an LPVO on a "do-everything" rifle makes a ton of sense. Suburban environment with straight, flat, long streets? Yeah, the case can be made there, also. I think a red dot with a magnifier would do pretty well in either environment also.

This has been the quandary of a huge chunk of the shooting community for a while now. Red dots (and holographic sights, which I lump in there for practical purposes) have been really good for a while now. Illuminated variable power scopes are approaching daylight red dot brightness and coming close to bridging the gap on true 1X. Fixed magnification stuff like ACOGs and prism optics are also pretty damn good choices. It's easy to pick a good optic that does a lot of what you need it to do. The problem is that none of them do everything. We can all suggest our favorite options or what we've settled on, and I'd wager that most or all of us have tried multiple iterations of various optic choices before settling on what we like best. In the end, that is probably what you'll have to do also: try out different options and see what works best for you. I've narrowed it down to one upper with an Eotech EXPS-3 with a Primary Arms magnifier on a twist mount that I'm going to upgrade to an Eotech 3x at some point, and another upper with a illuminated Sig 1-6. I want to put a Vortex Razor HD II-E on it at some point because the illumination on the Sig is garbo.

Some thoughts about optical sights.

A nonmagnifying sight with illuminated reticle like an Aimpoint is, I believe, what is most commonly used on law enforcement “patrol” rifles. LEOs must be prepared to engage targets at different ranges, and at very close distances, such as in building clearing, any magnification can make target engagement less intuitive and more difficult without extensive practice. I found that to be true even with a 1.5× scope I relied on years ago. One thing I like about some Aimpoint sights is that the on/off and illumination setting switch is a large, easy to use rotary knob. I have seen officers struggle with sights that require finding and pushing small buttons just right.

But if a human-sized target can be seen at 200 yards, hits are easily achieved with a red dot sight even by moderately-skilled shooters. Although it’s very rare that such a shot would be necessary, Officer Christopher Munn ended a deadly incident at 183 yards with one shot using that type rifle and sight.

If, however, we anticipate needing to make hits on head-sized targets at 200 yards, then for confident results magnification is needed, and not just a little. If it’s a must-not-hit-the-hostage rescue shot, then 10× is marginal and 15× is none too much, even assuming skilled marksmanship and sufficiently precise rifle and ammunition.

If we really need to be able to make reasonably precise shots at 200 yards while also having the ability to check that strange noise in the living room, then a scope with a large variable magnification range will usually be the best compromise option. Because such scopes use traditional etched reticles, they’ll still be usable when batteries are no longer available or cannot be charged after the apocalypse.

The disadvantages of such scopes are their size, weight, (lack of) ruggedness, and the fact that they are a compromise for many purposes. Even if the magnification can be dialed down to almost 1×, they’re still not going to be as good for really close distance engagements as a nonmagnifying red dot. And even the ones that are now available with a top magnification of 10× are not what I’d want for that 200 yard hostage rescue shot.

Ultimately the only way to make the best decision is to look at what we expect to use the sight for. If it’s for use on a defensive weapon, what sort of scenarios do we anticipate being reasonably likely?