I went to the Wednesday night shoot last night at our club expecting to shoot steel. Turned out that only one other guy showed up, and he brought a Smith Model 19 and wanted to shoot the PCC course instead. This was fine with me, although if I'd known we were going to do that I'd have brought a revolver. As it was, I shot it with my red-dot equipped P320, which made the reloads a little unfair. We shot it a few times and my scores hovered right around the 280 mark...not great, but not horrible. I did see on the calendar while I was there that there's a local USPSA match on the 13th of April, and I'm off that day. I may try to attend.

Shot a larger indoor local (35 shooters) the other night. 3/35 overall and 1/14 in carry optics. I was beat overall by an open GM and a limited optics A class guy that I think shoots more like an M.

I'll take it. That's three division wins in the last five matches. I'm ready for outdoor season to start. Those matches around here tend to be bigger and better attended. Looking forward to being humbled.

I’ve shot 3 IDPA matches. It was the most boring time I’ve ever had at a range. All day sitting around waiting to shoot. The pace was ridiculously slow. I doubt I had more than 2 minutes of total shooting time. I enjoy shooting, not waiting to shoot. I’ll never do that again.

It's like bowling and golf. The better you are at it, the less you do of it.

It is an interesting realization, "I spent 3 1/2 hours to shoot for 57 seconds."


As to the thread title, "Go shoot a match", I agree, especially with a carry gun or one you're betting your life on. Locally we have USPSA and "IDPA style" matches. The latter, because of the smaller stages/matches, lower round counts and lesser requirements gear wise and "regular guns" make it where the new people usually start. It was always an eye opener for people to see how much their stuff didn't work. Guns they're owned for decades, with thousands of trouble free rounds through them, suddenly seeing them repeatedly choke on them when they tried to use them at speeds. Or malfunctions related reloads that they'd never had because they're never really tried to do them in a hurry. You can learn a lot.

I shot a little four stage USPSA match last Tuesday. I drove two hours there, shot for a total of 78 seconds, and drove two hours home. I did not personally feel bored or like I wasn't getting my time's worth. I enjoy the process and like to watch other shooters, particularly the good ones.

If it's not for you, I get it, but I think there is room to use shooting competitively to inform your training. You see what is not working under so-called match pressure and then train those specific skills for a while. Then you shoot another match to try to gauge your progress.

There are also a lot of people that are shooting matches with no real training goal. They're shooting the match to shoot the match. That's okay, too, but it's hard for me to see wanting to be so mediocre at something and then doing it repeatedly for years and not caring. Maybe some of them just don't know how to train. Hard to say.

6/46 overall and 2/16 in CO at this last match. It included a classifier that I did okay on. I should be sitting at about 73.5% once the classification routine runs next week, so very close to my goal of making A class this year.

I shot at the local match yesterday. My shots were okay (not great, but mostly good), and my time sucked. My method really sucked on the first stage. I'm okay with it; I got better as the day progressed.

My first stage performance sucked so badly I apologized to the squad leader for it. And this is where shooting in a group pays off: he said, essentially, "look, man, we all have bad days. Today is yours. We want you to come back next time, don't worry about it. Keep improving."

It's not a substitute for actual training, but shooting with this group helps me way more than any shooting I could do on my own -- I get instant feedback on my methods and performance, and great coaching for the next stage or match. I wish I'd gotten into it sooner.

Made it out to the club this week for the Wednesday night shoot. It's finally warm enough and light long enough that we could shoot steel outside. Only two of us showed up, and the other guy wanted to shoot rimfire, so we threw together an outlaw steel challenge stage and went at it with .22s. It was even more informal than normal, but neither of us was in it for ego so we tried a bunch of variations, including RHO, LHO, and just burning it down two-handed.

It was cheap, we both got to shoot a bunch, the MkIV ran pretty well, and I had a good time. IIRC my fastest run on 5 plates was 3.25.

 https://youtube.com/shorts/6f2...?si=x18ZqN4h9KFL2F8S 

I concur, this isn’t a match above in the video though we do set up stages for the weapons staff to progress their skills. Before I left 85% of the staff shot matches. It’s a much needed culture shift. For example you can do a lot with a set up like in the video. Change start positions like running it backwards or moving the target around.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: piedrarc,

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
I shot at the local match yesterday. My shots were okay (not great, but mostly good), and my time sucked. My method really sucked on the first stage. I'm okay with it; I got better as the day progressed.

My first stage performance sucked so badly I apologized to the squad leader for it. And this is where shooting in a group pays off: he said, essentially, "look, man, we all have bad days. Today is yours. We want you to come back next time, don't worry about it. Keep improving."

It's not a substitute for actual training, but shooting with this group helps me way more than any shooting I could do on my own -- I get instant feedback on my methods and performance, and great coaching for the next stage or match. I wish I'd gotten into it sooner.

Learning stage planning takes time. Even if your stage planning is good, you still have to execute your plan.

Use the match to guide your training time.

Shot my first real USPSA match today. Definitely eye opening, and had a lot of fun. We got squadded up with one of the guys I know from our gun club, so he kind of showed us the ropes and answered any questions we had.

There were some master class guys there, and they were just stupid fast. I am not. I placed 15/24 (4/6 in Limited Optics), my son was 19/32 (5/6 in Limited Optics). I shot my duty gun (Full-size P320 W/ Romeo 1 and 17 round mags) and my son shot his P09 w/Holosun and 21 round mags, both from Safariland duty holsters. Reading up on the divisions after the fact, I think we probably should have been in Carry Optics, not Limited Optics, but no big deal.

I had the highest number of A-zone hits of anyone in the match, 1 mike on the first stage (I think my round clipped a barrel), and no procedurals. I'm just darn slow...my time was double that of the top shoter, who was a master class guy.

I enjoyed the comraderie within the squad, and the techincal shooting and gun handling aspects of the match. I'm good with the hit factor concept, too...I think it penalizes sloppiness adequately while promoting speed. I really like the heavy penalty for a complete miss, even though I got dinged for one today. Some guys really have a solid grasp of how fast they can go and still get acceptable, if not perfect hits...that's definitely something I need to keep working on.

What I'm not in love with is the heavy emphasis on stage planning and efficiency. Maybe my persepctive is a bit skewed coming from the cop side, but the ability to dry-run the stages beforehand and game the system is a bit of a bummer, IMO. I get that it's a game, but I'd prefer the deciding factor to be more technical proficiency than how efficiently you can pre-plan and move through the stage. I'd have still gotten my ass kicked either way...I'd just rather get out-shot or out-run than out-planned.

Signed up for an intro match next Sunday with some of the guys in my group. It'll be my first "regular" match in the daytime without NODs. I was able to choose between pistol and PCC, and chose PCC. I want to start shooting pistol matches, but my last time out with the guys a few weeks ago, my pistol shooting was so abysmal with my own carry piece that I dumped two full 17rd mags out of my G45 at a dueling tree about ten yards away and only pinged one of them once. That was even slowing down and really working to focus on fundamentals after it was clear that I was having some sort of issue. I am not really sure what the problem was, but I asked to borrow my buddy's G47 with EFLX dot on it to run it again immediately after and flat couldn't miss.

So, I'm not going to waste a lot of time with pistol shooting until I get either the G45 or G17 cut for the Holosun I have sitting on my desk. I've been working on my draw and dry firing my way through a whole series of Ernest Langdon fundamentals videos, so I'll pull it all together once the gear is in a place where I know it's not going to change. Need to get off my ass and send a slide out to Wager machine and just get after it.

I'm fully aware of how ass-backwards that sounds, but I don't want to throw a lot of ammo at whatever the problem is in a competitive setting. If I can't make hits on the clock with irons, there's a training issue I need to work through on my own time. It's a poor workman who blames his tools and I'm not saying putting a dot on the gun will fix it for me, but it's been consistently proven to me that I don't do well with the Ameriglo Agent dot-over-dot style sights on my G45 and those need to go away or the other. I was doing consistently better with the stock plastic Glock sights on my G17, and I don't want to change the irons on either until I get the optic on one.

Regardless, I am looking forward to the match. I learn so much every time out. Shooting on the clock with the guys and doing our own ad hoc USPSA style events has made me grow a hell of a lot as a shooter this last year. I had set a goal to shoot at least a match a month and hadn't held myself to it, but thankfully the group I've helped put together has a number of guys who are pretty dedicated about shooting regular matches and they've been an excellent influence. They're constantly dropping Practiscore links in the chat.

I also got to do some shooting with the local Sheriff's Dept this weekend. That was more just practice drills, but we also did a run and gun type relay competition at the end using a plate rack and a dueling tree.

Compared to the USPSA courses, it was a lot more physically demanding, and the accuracy standard was much higher. It lacked the organization, planning, and structured scoring of the USPSA stages, but I enjoyed the actual shooting challenge a little more.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Maybe my persepctive is a bit skewed coming from the cop side, but the ability to dry-run the stages beforehand and game the system is a bit of a bummer

So, just to be clear, when you serve warrants you never rehearse? You never look to see if the primary door swings in or out? Check everyone’s criminal history at the house to see if they’re bad men, or really bad men? Talk to other officers that have been at the location on previous calls to get a layout? God forbid your agency requires a threat matrix to be completed first? That’s all stage planning that cops do (or at least should be doing) every day.

Hell, when they call my guys in, one of my team leaders, a sniper and a breacher will do a recon on the location. The drivers will get in unmarked vehicles and drive the route they’ll use on game day, especially if it’s a county on the edge of our coverage. If we have time, we’ll tape off the floor and rehearse getting out of the vehicles and making the approach.

I stage plan every day.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Maybe my persepctive is a bit skewed coming from the cop side, but the ability to dry-run the stages beforehand and game the system is a bit of a bummer

So, just to be clear, when you serve warrants you never rehearse? You never look to see if the primary door swings in or out? Check everyone’s criminal history at the house to see if they’re bad men, or really bad men? Talk to other officers that have been at the location on previous calls to get a layout? God forbid your agency requires a threat matrix to be completed first? That’s all stage planning that cops do (or at least should be doing) every day.

Hell, when they call my guys in, one of my team leaders, a sniper and a breacher will do a recon on the location. The drivers will get in unmarked vehicles and drive the route they’ll use on game day, especially if it’s a county on the edge of our coverage. If we have time, we’ll tape off the floor and rehearse getting out of the vehicles and making the approach.

I stage plan every day.

Given the opportunity, sure. I'm not SWAT so I don't have the opportunity to do that kind of long-range pre-planning in most situations, but I take your point, I do look at doors, I check for available cover around vehicles on stops, evaluate the occupants and their location in the vehicle (if I can see through the tint), etc. There's some pre-planning in everything. But nowhere near the degree that you get in a match. More often than not you just have to take the situation that you're handed and figure it out on the fly.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

April:

Finished the month out shooting the first outdoor match of the year at my local club. 6/80 overall and 1/22 in carry optics. Pretty happy with that and still aware of a lot of work to be done. Beat by two GMs (open and LO), an M (LO), and an A (open)...plus an unclassified PCC guy.

Before the match I calculated that I need to put an 82% classifier up to make it to A class. I got to the range, walked the stages, found the classifier and immediately recognized it as one that was retired at the start of April. Apparently the match director selected it before it was retired.

I put up 83.6%. Sad day. I know I'll get there.

The day after the above local I ran a small match for law enforcement. I expected people to just kind of trickle in and out and to be able to run a couple guys at a time through the stages. We ended up having 27 people show up and got pretty bogged down. Learned a lot about match administration but mostly that there's still a lot to learn. We'll be taking May off for these LE matches but I'm committed to doing them every other month through the outdoor season. (we also set up a USPSA classifier to shoot unofficially at this match and I had 84%)

Would you be able to explain the classification system a little bit? I get that the classifiers are used to determine your classification as a shooter, and you have to shoot at least 4(?) of them to get classified, but I don't totally understand the process or details. Are the percentages you're referring to the ones listed in the "%" column on practiscore? Do you have to be an official USPSA member at the time you shoot it for a match/classifier to count towards your classification? Does your classification get updated up or down automatically as you shoot more classifiers, or is it something you have to apply for or request?

We did have a classifier stage at the match Sunday. It was some kind of bill drill thing with three separate strings, two of them requiring reloads and the last one transitioned to RHO after the reload. I definitely could have pushed it faster and taken some Charlie's, but I shot it clean with 18 A-zone hits and it was the best HF that I had the whole day. I got an 82.03 in that percentage column, but I'm not really sure what that means.

It means your score was 82.3% of the best on that stage.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
There are also a lot of people that are shooting matches with no real training goal. They're shooting the match to shoot the match. That's okay, too, but it's hard for me to see wanting to be so mediocre at something and then doing it repeatedly for years and not caring. Maybe some of them just don't know how to train. Hard to say.

Some people shoot because they enjoy it. (shocking idea)

We used to joke "this match is practice for the next match."
I treated matches the same way I always talk about hunting.. "I enjoy it too much to turn it into work."
When I tried to get serious, I enjoyed it less.

Also, not knowing your age or what you're local "scene" is like, it's my experience that MOST of the people playing these games are past, if not WELL past their prime. They know they can't turn back the clock, so they come to terms with where they are (big picture) and just try to enjoy themselves.

Several people urged me, strongly, to start shooting competitively when I was young, but I had zero interest. But even if I had, I never would have been able to afford it. Honestly when I finally did pick it up in my early 40's I couldn't afford it. (That was a big reason I slowed down way on it, I digging myself deeper and deeper in debt in order to keep at it.)

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Would you be able to explain the classification system a little bit? I get that the classifiers are used to determine your classification as a shooter, and you have to shoot at least 4(?) of them to get classified, but I don't totally understand the process or details. Are the percentages you're referring to the ones listed in the "%" column on practiscore? Do you have to be an official USPSA member at the time you shoot it for a match/classifier to count towards your classification? Does your classification get updated up or down automatically as you shoot more classifiers, or is it something you have to apply for or request?

We did have a classifier stage at the match Sunday. It was some kind of bill drill thing with three separate strings, two of them requiring reloads and the last one transitioned to RHO after the reload. I definitely could have pushed it faster and taken some Charlie's, but I shot it clean with 18 A-zone hits and it was the best HF that I had the whole day. I got an 82.03 in that percentage column, but I'm not really sure what that means.

The classification system was actually overhauled in April and is much simpler now. You need to shoot four classifiers to obtain an initial classification. Once you reach eight, your classification is the best six of your last eight.

The percentage shown in Practiscore is only your percentage of the winner (overall or division depending on how you have the scores filtered) at the match. Each classifier has a "high hit factor" for each division. Those numbers are accessible via the USPSA website, USPSA app, or hitfactor.info (a free site).

The break down in classifications is:

GM 95%+
M 85-94.9999%
A 75-84.9999%
B 60-74.9999%
C 40-59.9999%
D 0-39.9999%

You must me a USPSA member to achieve and advance a classification. If you shoot matches (Level 1 only) as a non-member, you could technically track it yourself if you had the HHF for your division.

If you tell me your hit factor and the classifier number, I can give you your percentage.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Some people shoot because they enjoy it. (shocking idea)

We used to joke "this match is practice for the next match."
I treated matches the same way I always talk about hunting.. "I enjoy it too much to turn it into work."
When I tried to get serious, I enjoyed it less.

Also, not knowing your age or what you're local "scene" is like, it's my experience that MOST of the people playing these games are past, if not WELL past their prime. They know they can't turn back the clock, so they come to terms with where they are (big picture) and just try to enjoy themselves.

Several people urged me, strongly, to start shooting competitively when I was young, but I had zero interest. But even if I had, I never would have been able to afford it. Honestly when I finally did pick it up in my early 40's I couldn't afford it. (That was a big reason I slowed down way on it, I digging myself deeper and deeper in debt in order to keep at it.)

You're not wrong at all. It's really no different than golf, cycling, martial arts, poker, or about any other competitive hobby.

quote:

If you tell me your hit factor and the classifier number, I can give you your percentage.

Thanks!

Actually, I think I just found the High Hit Factor Tables. Looks like it comes out to 55.92%, so not that great. I worked on that one some more today, so I'll run those numbers and see how I did in practice. I like the idea of having a standard to work towards.