quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Goal for this year?

-Shoot three majors (Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana sectionals are all doable).

-Make A class. Classifier access will hopefully help with this. Putting your entire classification on a single classifier match a year is not the way.

-Further integrate practical shooting at work. Looking at setting up a small monthly match for the guys that are interested. Hopefully as a way to push some of them to shooting actual matches.

I've got some other things I would like to hammer out in terms of consistency. Need to eliminate the random Ms and NSs and up the A count. I think I'm trending in the right direction there. Also always working on movement but I think it's hard to have measurable goals there.

Bowling pin matches are back! They just started up a few weeks ago. I hadn’t shot a pin match in 35 years.

https://okcorralgunclub.com/

First post in this thread, feels appropriate to start here:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Goal for this year?

Get out there and do the damn thing.

I have an expanding group of guys I put on night vision shoots with. Not surprisingly, a number of them shoot various legit matches. I got conned... I mean peer pressured into doing a 2 gun night match this coming weekend. There's white light and night vision divisions, and I signed up for the latter. Emailed back and forth with the director since it's my first match, and got assigned to a squad with two other guys from my group. Several more are on another squad. While browsing the squad makeup list, I ran across the name of a former CAG guy on another squad who has made a name for himself lately shitting all over civilians in this particular space, and it's already fucking with my head. I guess that's lesson one before I even get there: prep my stuff and focus on what I can control and don't worry about the other guys in other lanes and what they do, or the opinions they spout.

I have two rifles that run well, going to bring both in case one goes down. I still don't have a pistol set up for this stuff, so a buddy is giving me a loaner G17 with an RMR. I've never shot a pistol with a dot, so that's probably gonna hurt me.

All-in-all, it's just a learning opportunity. I've done a lot of shooting with the guys on the clock this year on our own, and I absolutely love it. I do better with it than I thought I would, and I'm one of the few who wants to run it over and over until I can't do it faster or cleaner. There's another NV match in February, and if this weekend goes well, I'll be signing up for that one, too. Probably need to get off my butt and do some daytime stuff at the club just up the road as well.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
First post in this thread, feels appropriate to start here:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Goal for this year?

Get out there and do the damn thing.

I have an expanding group of guys I put on night vision shoots with. Not surprisingly, a number of them shoot various legit matches. I got conned... I mean peer pressured into doing a 2 gun night match this coming weekend. There's white light and night vision divisions, and I signed up for the latter. Emailed back and forth with the director since it's my first match, and got assigned to a squad with two other guys from my group. Several more are on another squad. While browsing the squad makeup list, I ran across the name of a former CAG guy on another squad who has made a name for himself lately shitting all over civilians in this particular space, and it's already fucking with my head. I guess that's lesson one before I even get there: prep my stuff and focus on what I can control and don't worry about the other guys in other lanes and what they do, or the opinions they spout.

I have two rifles that run well, going to bring both in case one goes down. I still don't have a pistol set up for this stuff, so a buddy is giving me a loaner G17 with an RMR. I've never shot a pistol with a dot, so that's probably gonna hurt me.

All-in-all, it's just a learning opportunity. I've done a lot of shooting with the guys on the clock this year on our own, and I absolutely love it. I do better with it than I thought I would, and I'm one of the few who wants to run it over and over until I can't do it faster or cleaner. There's another NV match in February, and if this weekend goes well, I'll be signing up for that one, too. Probably need to get off my butt and do some daytime stuff at the club just up the road as well.

So you're shooting with Matt Pranka, lol? Honestly, if that's the case, that dude does know his stuff, and I doubt he's as abrasive in person, especially when sober. I watched some of that video, and while he kind of came off like a belligerent alcoholic, the other panelists also goaded him to it and repeatedly employed logical fallacies to detract from some valid points that he was making. The dude has been there done that and didn't like getting shit-talked by some YouTube influencers with zero real-world experience. It's kinda hard to blame him. I doubt you'll have any issues with him at the match.

Also, how do you not own/shoot a pistol with a dot yet? All those fancy rifles and NVGs but no handguns? Be careful borrowing that Glock...it's going to start you down a whole new road of expensive stuff that you have to buy, lol!

It sounds like a fun match. You're going full-bore by starting with low-light! I've always wanted to try two-gun, but there just isn't anything local and the regional stuff is crazy expensive and would require travel. Please be sure to do a follow-up post after the match...I'd love to hear your experience.

I don't want to derail the thread with that other stuff, it may be a good topic for KSGM's thread in here. I mentioned it specifically in the context of keeping your mind on your stuff in a competitive setting and not letting other competitors or who you may be up against rattle you. Besides, my kit is decidedly not Gucci and he's got a video talking about how if you're not willing to get out there and shoot a match, you're a poser, so I don't feel like I'm squarely the demographic he was going after anyways. I'm going out there to learn where I'm weak against guys who are way better, and work on it on my own time. I have no illusions about my skill level or mobility, I expect to come in somewhere around dead last.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Also, how do you not own/shoot a pistol with a dot yet? All those fancy rifles and NVGs but no handguns? Be careful borrowing that Glock...it's going to start you down a whole new road of expensive stuff that you have to buy, lol!

I tried a dot on a pistol for a bit, just some chunk of a Burris I got in trade, and didn't care for it at the time. That was nearly five years ago. I know it's pretty much required gear with shooting NV, and it was already something I'd decided I need to iron out this year, just haven't gotten to it yet. Yes, I've been focused on getting some rifles set up and trying out different stuff getting that sorted out. All this stuff is piecemeal and happens by degrees.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
It sounds like a fun match. You're going full-bore by starting with low-light! I've always wanted to try two-gun, but there just isn't anything local and the regional stuff is crazy expensive and would require travel. Please be sure to do a follow-up post after the match...I'd love to hear your experience.

Yeah, it would probably make more sense to actually start with a daylight match, but this was a last-minute "hey, we're doing this, who else is going with us" kind of thing. I've been doing a lot of shooting under NODs this last year, so I feel reasonably confident and decided to just go for it. I'm going through my gear and heading out in about four hours.

Shot a five stage, all classifier match today. Match pressure remains a thing. While I don't necessarily think practicing classifiers is a good way to prep, I had a couple hours Friday and was able to set up four of the five and run through them a couple times each. I could generally (including cold) shoot them at a high B to low A hit factor. I could generally get a high A or low M in 2-3 attempts (I know that's not how it works).

Actual match performance was pretty consistent with 70, 73, and 75 percent on three of the five. Of the other two, I managed to plug two no shoots on one and drop the mag out of my gun on a table start (extended magazine release burned me) so those two were 52 and 45 percent. Despite that, this will move me to B class, which I'm pleased with.

The interesting thing about this all classifier match (at least to me) is that most of the rest of the squad appeared to be just trying to get lucky. There was one Master on the squad that zeroed three of the five stages. C'mon, man. On the up side, at least two people in my squad will likely go from B to A (if my math is right) and a dude from another squad made GM in limited optics (with a 100%+ run on one classifier).

Looking forward to hopefully seeing classifiers at normal matches this year and not having to put all of the eggs in one basket every time.

I’ve written and not posted to this thread 3 times. I competed in IDPA for roughly 5 years from the late 1990s until 2005. Learned a ton about shooting, moving while shooting, and match pressure. Life and extensive work travel as well as a move over 1000 miles from the guys I shot with every week. I had the pleasure of watching many of the legends shoot up in Springfield, MA which was awesome. I personally chose to focus less on the game and more on competing with myself. We had a few guys that made the game more important than the training/practice. Waiting to see who showed up at the match before declaring which category they were shooting because they couldn’t beat a person shooting that night. I witnessed them changing out ammo at a match in a panic when a chronograph was pulled out to ensure everyone was making power. I would presume he knew his “bunny fart” loads were not legal. I overlooked that stuff because the only thing that mattered was my own classification and I rarely shot in his class.

Fast forward, I have taken many pistol training course over the last 20 years and I’m exponentially more competent with a pistol. I’m fortunate to have a range that allows for realistic training from holster, has barricades in our pits, steel and traditional targets. I train very specifically, use a timer, and work hard on being better. My son is now an adult shoots with me almost every week and has taken some classes with me. He has never competed in a match and it would probably benefit him greatly. The rush of a stage always felt like a Disney ride. Our club sponsors a USPSA monthly match but we have yet to shoot in it.

I’ve met and watched some of the guys who compete while at the range practicing and they seem like good people as expected. I’ve been at the range as the match is finishing and it looks like “Renaissance festival” of tactical and industry sponsored “LARPers”. Competition belts with pistol hangers and magazines holders twisted off in all directions or war belts worthy of a Delta operative. More team Jersey’s than weekend cyclists club pretending to be competing in the Tour de France. I have yet to see one person in gear similar to what they’d likely be CCW carrying in real life. That type of competition has zero appeal to me as it pertains to eating up my precious spare time. I know the benefits and used to know the differences both pluses and minuses of IDPA vs USPSA. I probably should just suck it up and shoot production division the way I want, but the ridiculousness of the whole thing at my range keeps me away.

41st out of 46, and I’m not feeling too horrible about it. It was mainly this one rifle stage where everything went wrong. I brought my Stribog and some mags I’ve had issues with in the past, but I thought I’d ironed it all out. Evidently, I have not, because it jammed every round. I used some old factory 30’s instead of the Magpul 35’s that run 100% because the rules said that’s what we were limited to, and later saw a couple guys running Surefire 60 quad stacks. Casually asked about the mag limits and was told it wasn’t enforced. Oh well.

It’s a good thing I brought a backup. The Bren ran perfectly and I made up for it a fair bit on the next stage. Shooting in still air with a light through gunsmoke is tough. Shooting braced off a wobbly VTAC barrier sucks. My mobility was better than plenty of other guys, so that was reassuring. Shooting a pistol with a dot last night was a lot less of a problem than I thought it would be, and I did pretty well with it. I shot both pistol stages clean with no penalties.

Overall, I’m pretty pleased with my performance. I had some equipment issues that I either sorted out, or will have sorted out, and I have some things to work on for next time. I need a dot on a pistol, and I need a capable LAM that’s zeroed. I finally see a use case for active aiming, and it’s putting a laser on a smaller target when a weaponlight is bouncing a bunch of light back at you from dust and smoke. Thankfully, the guys I shoot with the most are the guys I was shooting with on my squad last night, so we’ll be able to continue to give each other pointers on stuff we need to work on. Next night match is in about a month, so that’s plenty of time to get ready.

Nice! Sounds like it went pretty well and more importantly you learned some stuff. I'll bet next time goes significantly better once you get the Stribog sorted out.

VTAC barricades suck with weaponlights...it seems like no matter how you have your gun set up there's always some position where you have to choose between blocking your light or blocking your sights. I've gotten pissed before and just done my own bastardized rendition of the old FBI handgun technique, shooting the rifle one-handed and holding a handheld up above the barricade, lol.

Glad to hear the handgun with the dot wasn't an issue. I find low-light to be one of the areas where the RDS provides huge advantages over irons.

The whole thing really sounds like a good time. I need to find a way to get into something like that locally.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:

I’ve met and watched some of the guys who compete while at the range practicing and they seem like good people as expected. I’ve been at the range as the match is finishing and it looks like “Renaissance festival” of tactical and industry sponsored “LARPers”. Competition belts with pistol hangers and magazines holders twisted off in all directions or war belts worthy of a Delta operative. More team Jersey’s than weekend cyclists club pretending to be competing in the Tour de France. I have yet to see one person in gear similar to what they’d likely be CCW carrying in real life. That type of competition has zero appeal to me as it pertains to eating up my precious spare time. I know the benefits and used to know the differences both pluses and minuses of IDPA vs USPSA. I probably should just suck it up and shoot production division the way I want, but the ridiculousness of the whole thing at my range keeps me away.

Maybe try shooting one of these matches and seeing what these guys are all about. I see everything from "normal" competition gear and true race guns to concealment holsters and small striker guns to cops using their duty gear to guys with a cheap leather belt and a cheap and kydex holster. There are jerseys and cleats on some guys and jeans and work boots on others. Nobody that I shoot with seems to care at all what anybody else is using or wearing. Particularly with club matches, I think there's plenty of room to build your own adventure. I also don't think a gear choice invalidates the defensive application.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but I think there is a good chance that you'd find people are far more like you than different.

^ I agree with Brad. When I shoot steel challenge at our local club there's a mix of old guys with 1911s and revolvers, teenage kids or grandkids with whatever extra gear dad or grandpa could scrounge up, casual semi-auto shooters, serious guys with competition rigs, and I usually show up with my duty rig because that's the whole reason I'm doing it. Everybody is always really friendly and kinda has their own thing going. Some guys are all about their times, others are just there to make some noise and socialize. As long as I'm getting some clean reps in and improving my times I feel like I'm getting my money's worth, and I don't really care if I'm competitive with the guy pulling a race gun out of a non-retention competition holster.

quote:

Particularly with club matches, I think there's plenty of room to build your own adventure. I also don't think a gear choice invalidates the defensive application.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but I think there is a good chance that you'd find people are far more like you than different.

While I can’t disagree with any of the things you said, I find my patience for the gamer/win at all cost games seems to be deteriorating exponentially the older I get. I too experienced the array of people you describe and only had a handful of people always intent on breaking the rules to be at the top of the match results. We even had a former marine sniper who insisted on approaching barricades as he had been trained, shooting either left handed or right depending on which side of the barricade he was shooting from. Those transitions slowed him down slightly, but the guy was a much better shot than the “winner” every week. I know match stress is a real thing which I have not been able to duplicate while training, so I probably will try a match at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:

quote:

Particularly with club matches, I think there's plenty of room to build your own adventure. I also don't think a gear choice invalidates the defensive application.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but I think there is a good chance that you'd find people are far more like you than different.

While I can’t disagree with any of the things you said, I find my patience for the gamer/win at all cost games seems to be deteriorating exponentially the older I get. I too experienced the array of people you describe and only had a handful of people always intent on breaking the rules to be at the top of the match results. We even had a former marine sniper who insisted on approaching barricades as he had been trained, shooting either left handed or right depending on which side of the barricade he was shooting from. Those transitions slowed him down slightly, but the guy was a much better shot than the “winner” every week. I know match stress is a real thing which I have not been able to duplicate while training, so I probably will try a match at some point.

USPSA, IPSC and similarly styled "hit factor" matches do not have much in the way of "rules", at least in the way that I think you're describing. With the exception of some classifiers, there is a strong preference towards giving the shooter the freedom to solve the problem freestyle. There is no "tactical priority", there is no requirement to utilize cover, and there are no rules about when and how you can reload, etc. The result is a contest where the person who can score the most points in the least time is the winner.

Take a look at this video from Erik Schall. Erik is probably a top 25 national competitor in Carry Optics and a full-time firearms instructor for a large police department in the southeast. I think it does an excellent job of contextualizing the motor patterns present in a hit factor match to actual defensive use.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:
We even had a former marine sniper who insisted on approaching barricades as he had been trained

This is the problem in a lot of places. People all too often teach, train, act to the level of their last unit. The create rules because those before them created rules. Instead, they should be inside of principles that are based on cultivated hard skills. Principles not rules. Hard skills over all else.


Schall was in a Bob Vogel class I took last year. He is a practical shooting monster.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Goal for this year?

I’m a little late to the party, but since you asked. Goals are simple this year :
-Become better at thinking less when on the clock. I find I do better when I can’t tell you how I did what I just did.
-Shoot OSR (optic sight revolver) at least 65% of the matches. Revolvers make me better as they reveal bad habits.
-Get my lightweight PCC build running smoothly and consistently by May.

quote:

Originally posted by VictimNoMore:


I’m a little late to the party, but since you asked.

Never too late. I’m hoping this thread may motivate some dudes to give this a try

Had my second match Sunday night. Of forty six shooters, I placed 19th. I'm pleased with the improvement, and have a good idea of what I need to work on next. Lots and lots of pistol, and I need my own red dot equipped setup - the gun, optic, and the holster. I spent a couple hours in the garage yesterday drawing and dry firing the rig my friend loaned me and even that made for a vast improvement over my times at the two pistol stages. I felt a lot faster, anyway. Need to get a shot timer.

I tried to focus on speed this last time. I can shoot accurately when I give myself time, but they also changed the rules to DQ you if you don't make the par time, and they set it to 45 seconds per stage. So, I went as fast as I could, and just missed faster if I thought that was the case. It worked out fine, and there were a few targets I walked up on during scoring that had three or four hits on them. 57A, 13C, 2D, 3M, no procedurals. My fastest stage was 11th place with 17.17 seconds and my slowest was 17th place with 41.41, but that one was the big rifle stage with running and shooting under a barrier in the middle. The suppressed Stribog with subs ran great, was an absolute joy to shoot the near stage where I did best. The extra range trip last Friday diagnosing what the problem was (bad ammo, thankfully) was worth the trip. Zero issues with it, but did have some sort of mystery issue with the borrowed G47 on one stage. I added some time trying to clear what I thought was a failure to feed and wound up ejecting a live round in the process. No idea what happened there.

I had two no-shoots. Some of that blame, I place on the guys who set up the stage painting the no-shoot targets red instead of black. Red doesn't translate to the IR spectrum real well, and under NODs, it looks like a very faint grey. With gunsmoke and dust being kicked up in still air, it quickly got pretty difficult to discern the no-shoots vs last time when they were black. One on stage, they added a big black X through the middle, but when the clock started, my brain ignored the X and I definitely shot the hostages in the head.

I wasn't the only one who had that problem, just about everyone in my group of guys drilled the far left no shoot on that stage right through the head.

Definitely bit by the bug, I want to do more of this. I've been doing a lot more dry fire, and running around the house and back yard at night with a belt, NODs, and an empty gun practicing passive and active. I need to do a lot more with pistol, and reloads on pistol and rifle. My group has been doing shoots twice a month since last October and it's paying off. Last time, we brought some T posts and safety fence and set up a shoot house in the desert. We have a spot on my end of the valley where we can safely shoot in about a 270 degree field of fire with good backstops, so we'll be out there sometime in the next few weeks running some stuff on the clock.

It sure is addictive.

I've got a match Thursday, one on 3/5, and another all-classifier on 3/16.

Got authorization from my home range to run a small, four stage, LE only match once a month starting in April. I'm hoping that will help me pull some more of the guys in and lead to those guys going and shooting public matches.

Nice, I'm glad it went well and that you got the demons exorcised from your PCC. I told you it was going to cost you money for a red dot handgun setup, lol.

Speaking of which...Brad, assuming payroll gets my check right I'll probably be emailing you Friday about that 507Comp we discussed a few weeks ago.

Another small local match tonight. 2/20 overall and 1/10 in carry optics. Bested by an open division master class guy. I had 94% overall. I'll take it.