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Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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IIRC, the American Rifleman has some reviews of the early M&P 9mm that showed something like 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards.

That no one ever was able to get within 5-7 inches of.




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Posts: 35720 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Whack-Job
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Picture of 18DAI
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Maybe they had the Apex barrel.........and trigger......and spring kit in that m&p 9. Smile

You know, all the stuff that the company posing as s&w couldn't be bothered to include in their guns. Wink Regards 18DAI


7+1 Rounds of hope and change
 
Posts: 4193 | Registered: August 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would guess a Ransom Rest was involved in that accuracy test.


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Posts: 13018 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Justin Dyal wrote a glowing report in December 2021 American Rifleman.


Is there any other kind from those hacks?
 
Posts: 198 | Registered: July 06, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Blackmore
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quote:
Originally posted by austintx:
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Justin Dyal wrote a glowing report in December 2021 American Rifleman.


Is there any other kind from those hacks?


But wait, he did say it had a sharp edge he needed to stone. That's more criticism that your standard American Rifleman review. Roll Eyes


We often meet our destiny on the road we took to avoid it.
 
Posts: 2485 | Location: W. Central NH | Registered: October 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tough crowd.


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Posts: 13468 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Giftedly Outspoken
Picture of sigarms229
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quote:
Tough crowd


Yeah, but they aren't wrong. I don't recall the American Rifleman ever trashing a product. Everything they've ever reviewed has been wonderful......



Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
 
Posts: 4065 | Location: SouthCentral PA | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
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this thread has me doing a lot of thinking. Back in 1988 I was faced with the choice of either buying on L-Frame or a BHP with adjustable sights. I chose the L-Frame, but I always wanted the high power.

maybe now's the time.


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Let's Go Brandon!
 
Posts: 9539 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Maybe American rifleman didn’t run 1500-2000 rounds. Seems the failures are occurring after running a good amount of ammo.
 
Posts: 3939 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'll be getting one after they've been out for a bit and get the bugs worked out. The Hi Power (MK2) was my first pistol, and I've always loved them. But that stupid magazine safety, same with the Smith 5900 series. What a stupid idea.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: andronicus,
 
Posts: 4535 | Location: Middletown, PA | Registered: January 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of TexasRaider
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Not just American Rifleman. I remember getting into the gun rags big time from about 1987 to 1998, and almost everyone of them ended every review with "...fired every round with zero issues, what a great addition to your collection!"

Of course, in or near the review was a full page ad taken out by the same company that made the gun being reviewed, what a coincidence, eh?

Once in awhile you'd see a good, honest review by Mas Ayoob or Dean Speir, but mostly gun mags were just 50+ pages of free advertising. I haven't bought one in a dog's life, but I bet they still are.


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Posts: 738 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I used to write for them back in the day. I had one or two lemons come my way and I basically had to send them back to the company and tell them no article was coming. Publications don’t want to publish an article that pans a product. That’s why publications like Gun Tests are so valuable.




 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Southern CA | Registered: July 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've got American Rifleman magazines going back to the early 1980s, and it's pretty easy to find Dope Bag reviews where they found unsatisfactory reliability, accuracy, or finish issues; less so in feature articles. (Ayoob's American Handgunner review of an early S&W 625 stands out as an example of brutal honesty.)

I was amused that the author (or editor) of the current AR review of the Springfield couldn't seem to decide if it was a "Hi Power" or "High Power". (One is a pistol and one is a Browning bolt action rifle.)

Anyway.... My belief is that SA either got the tooling from FM in Argentina or Tisas in Turkey (the Tisas/Regent BR9 seems to have disappeared from the market) or they're importing major components from one of those two sources and finishing them in the US, like they did with the older NM-prefix 1911s. I don't believe that they did a ground-up tooling to produce such an old design.
 
Posts: 665 | Registered: January 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I was amused that the author (or editor) of the current AR review of the Springfield couldn't seem to decide if it was a "Hi Power" or "High Power". (One is a pistol and one is a Browning bolt action rifle.)


I actually didn't know that. Learned something new. thanks

(Luckily I don't write for a gun publication Smile )


----------------------
Let's Go Brandon!
 
Posts: 9539 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
quote:
I was amused that the author (or editor) of the current AR review of the Springfield couldn't seem to decide if it was a "Hi Power" or "High Power". (One is a pistol and one is a Browning bolt action rifle.)


I actually didn't know that. Learned something new. thanks

(Luckily I don't write for a gun publication Smile )


I thout the author did pretty good with it. Browning imported HP’s were marketed as the Browning Hi Power to avoid that confusion, but the platform itself is FN’s High Power. So I thought he did a good job of using ‘Hi Power’ to refer to the Browning imports/models, but ‘High Power’ when refering to the pistol independant of Browning.
 
Posts: 23 | Registered: February 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of TexasRaider
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quote:
Originally posted by mesabi:
I've got American Rifleman magazines going back to the early 1980s, and it's pretty easy to find Dope Bag reviews where they found unsatisfactory reliability, accuracy, or finish issues; less so in feature articles. (Ayoob's American Handgunner review of an early S&W 625 stands out as an example of brutal honesty.)


I don't care what naysayers grind on about the man, Ayoob has been very straight forward, honest and square though the decades. I may not agree with every word he writes, but more often than not, I actually learned valuable lessons from him in regards to the "when" and "why" of self-defense shootings, which is to me far, far, far more valuable than one more tired, predictable "Hey, this gun is great! Go buy one!" article any retarded lemur drunk on bathtub moonshine could easily write.

quote:
Originally posted by mesabi:
My belief is that SA either got the tooling from FM in Argentina or Tisas in Turkey (the Tisas/Regent BR9 seems to have disappeared from the market) or they're importing major components from one of those two sources and finishing them in the US, like they did with the older NM-prefix 1911s. I don't believe that they did a ground-up tooling to produce such an old design.


Mine, too. Frankly, I was off SA after their ridiculous XD stunt, buying up Croatian handguns and hocking them as their own 'innovative new pistol!' Perhaps they only tacitly suggested those guns were 'their' design, but even up to today they silently advertise those things in a way so as to lead folks into inferring they're 'American' or built by SA. I think it's a lie of omission. I won't get back into the IFMA deal, everyone knows by now how deceitful and scummy they were for that.

As far as this new Hi Power wannabe thing they're selling? I seriously doubt they have the initiative to design such a pistol from the ground up and build it themselves. It probably is the TISAS BR9, nothing more. At this point, Springfield Armory is probably really just a firearms assembler, not a designer or manufacturer. It's easier to scour the Earth looking for things other people are making, buy them up, stamp your name on it and tell gullible gun buyers "Look how innovative we are! Look what we just re-introduced!"

Nothing by that company interests me, not one damned thing. I'd rather give my money to Hi-Point than to those turds.


________________________________________
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Posts: 738 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by TexasRaider:
It probably is the TISAS BR9, nothing more.


But how would we ever know for sure?

I'd be disappointed too if that's all it is.


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Let's Go Brandon!
 
Posts: 9539 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I'd be disappointed too if that's all it is.


Not me. The BR9 is a nice pistol; if SA wants to rebrand it with their own few "massages" at the listed price point, it's okay by me.
 
Posts: 665 | Registered: January 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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quote:
At this point, Springfield Armory is probably really just a firearms assembler, not a designer or manufacturer. It's easier to scour the Earth looking for things other people are making, buy them up, stamp your name on it and tell gullible gun buyers "Look how innovative we are! Look what we just re-introduced!"



Honestly, is that really such a bad thing, so long as it's a quality product and it works? Not everything has to be new, or innovative. Honestly, SA makes nothing that I'd want to carry on duty or as a defensive sidearm. Im not saying the XD is a bad gun, it just doesn't do anything for me. I have other stuff already to fill those roles, and it doesn't really matter what SA releases in that market, I'm probably not going to buy it.

But as an option to acquire some older designs that are no longer being produced...kind of "keeping the classics alive" if you will...that's kinda cool. I appreciate what SA has done with the M1A, retro 1911's, and now the Hi-Power. If they came out with an M1 Carbine clone that worked, or a Luger, I'd be all over those, too. Prices on that stuff has gotten stupid over the past few years, and if a company can come out with an affordable, reliable, commercial alternative that utilizes an identical design, maintains parts commonality with the originals, and is of decent quality, I'm in favor of that.

Not everybody is a serious collector that wants to/can afford to pay big money for an original just to use as a range toy. Personally, I'm a shooter who appreciates the mechanics of various designs, and enjoy shooting them for fun. I can't afford $2500 for a WW2 Colt or Remington Rand, but a $600 Mil-Spec will give me a similar experience at an affordable price, with product support. I view the SA35 the same way. Judging by the way the market has reacted to it, many others feel the same.

I have yet to handle an SA35. I can't find one anywhere. I hear there may be some extraction issues, and if those remain unresolved, that's a problem. But I will say I handled an FEG clone at the LGS the other day, and was wholy unimpressed. From everything I've read about the SA35 so far, it's a much better option than one of those. I hope they get any issues resolved and that the gun ends up being successful, because hopefully if it is, they'll try the same thing again with something else that I'd like even more.
 
Posts: 5366 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mesabi:
quote:
I'd be disappointed too if that's all it is.


Not me. The BR9 is a nice pistol; if SA wants to rebrand it with their own few "massages" at the listed price point, it's okay by me.


If I recall correctly, the Tisas also has extractor issues.
 
Posts: 3576 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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