Hmmm... Complainers versus doers, Bruce. Only things the complainers provide is noise.

Keep up the good work.

P320 is back in the news.

N.H. Man Sues SIG Sauer After Gun Allegedly Fires Without Trigger Pull

Submission to US District Court District of NH, 2 July 2020:
Kyle Guay v. Sig Sauer Inc.

So.... show me the holster. If its the one I suspect it is, its the plastic cheapie that they were giving away with the guns awhile back.
I threw mine away. It was a paddle holster and flimsy as hell.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:
Submission to US District Court District of NH, 2 July 2020:
Kyle Guay v. Sig Sauer Inc.

Surprising.... but not really to me....

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
So.... show me the holster. If its the one I suspect it is, its the plastic cheapie that they were giving away with the guns awhile back.
I threw mine away. It was a paddle holster and flimsy as hell.

The lawsuit states, "...he was carrying his P320 in a SIG-manufactured, outside-the-waistband P250 model holster...," so I believe you're correct.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
So.... show me the holster. If its the one I suspect it is, its the plastic cheapie that they were giving away with the guns awhile back.
I threw mine away. It was a paddle holster and flimsy as hell.

The lawsuit states, "...he was carrying his P320 in a SIG-manufactured, outside-the-waistband P250 model holster...," so I believe you're correct.

It does make it harder for Sig to blame the holster.

This has put me in a pause on my 320s. In the law suit it explains a vast of un-command fire even after the upgrade. I hope it's another factor in those but makes me leery that's this is still happening even after the so called " Sig Upgrade".

Guay alleges that the firearm went off when removing the holster, with the weapon in the holster. The summary states that Guay moved the holster so that the barrel would "be facing backwards" when he removed the holster. I have no idea what that means.

He is using a P250 holster with a P320.

He is alleging numerous discharges by P320's, without trigger pull, and the summary bases it off of alleged statements by the Hillsboro police that there are "historical problems with the trigger assembly of the P320."

The suit is specifically about the P320, but shows an Honor Defense pistol on page 22, to show an out-of battery pistol. Either grasping at straws, or not well thought out.

There are numerous vague references; while location is mentioned, no details of the discharge in each case are provided, and given discussions we've had on this site previously about this issue, I'd strongly suspect that at least in some, if not many of those cases, poor handling resulted in the discharge. From the description of Guay's handling, that appears also to be the case.

At a minimum, why did Guay cover his thigh with the muzzle, when removing the holster and firearm?

When I remove a holster, I remove the firearm first I also don't point the firearm at myself.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sns3guppy,

I wonder if they will blame the ammo again.

And all these stories fail to show the holster, the gun, ammo, etc.
Why?

I mean if SIG provided the holster with the weapon, one would imagine that they tested it for safety and all that...

My guess is SIG will be writing some checks to keep this quiet, since they have already gotten what they wanted (the M17/M18 contract), which helped them figure out their pistols could fire without a trigger pull... which was 'impossible', but not really.

There has been mention of a class action lawsuit filed against SIG Sauer regarding the P320 being settled. Guessing that SIG's legal team thought that things likely could get very ugly before they might get better. Despite the recent spike of massive gun sales--particularly among first-time gun buyers--there is still a very real underlying distaste for guns, particularly among the left. And I would guess that in the way certain events fell into place back in 2016 and 2017, indeed a trial would dredge things up in front of the very liberal national media, maybe to the point where politicians on the left would even call into question the Pentagon's decision to choose the P320, not to mention all of the agency and police department decisions to procure the platform, especially with the atmosphere of all of the calls for defunding departments and all of that rubbish going on. Most certainly there would be many of those who would politicize those choices for their own agendas, and that's something that any military contractor, let along SIG Sauer specifically, really doesn't need have scrutinized.

Still, even though SIG doesn't admit to wrongdoing (corporate defendants never do) with the settlement, the underlying reek is still inherently there. Especially when one goes through the trouble of coaxing words like 'agreement' rather than the usually proper use of 'settlement'. Calling a spade a spade is not something SIG NH will do lightly, I guess.

https://www.sigsauer.com/Hartley/

As I said way back in the hazy days of 2017, the P320 'update' program should've been a proper RECALL. Own it all the way; you just don't fuck around with people's safety and well-being. Being flaky and wishy-washy and cutesy over the labeling and dealing of such a serious matter was just plain dumb, and ultimately opened themselves up to those sharks smelling big money. This was a situation that was SIG's own doing; not just the gun's safety failure (which frankly could happen with any product; just ask Boeing), but more cynically the sugarcoating that SIG's people did with its P320 very-voluntary "upgrade service...but just don't call it a fix" bullshit. Even Springfield Armory revised their voluntary grip safety repair for the XDS to a proper recall, not surprisingly after watching how the P320 melodrama unfolded. The stench of The Ron once again, only this time it comes back to bite. Thank God for the sharks (yes I'm being sarcastic).

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-co...il&utm_source=Eloqua

From Excam_Man's thread. That's some big money being bandied about for what was originally a $600 pistol.

I don't have anything of substance to add, but I can't believe my original thread is now 83 pages long!

I believe the rocking the barrel backwards is speaking of him working the paddle of the holster out. I have done similar taking a paddle holster off, as they can get stuck depending on design.

It sounds to me like Either a holster failure or a foreign object (shirt tail etc.) was holstered with the gun and when the holster was moved far enough it pulled the trigger.

I am not a fan of the 320 in general and generally prefer hammer fired guns but if I were to guess I don’t think this is the guns fault.

Frankly most of the time I think these are from somebody dorking around with the gun and trying to save face but I digress.

Funny story though. I have a VR game called VR Gun Club and it has a wide variety of well modeled real firearms. The SIG P320 is one. What’s the FIRST thing I did with it???? I through it on the virtual ground to see if it would fire. . I thought that would have made for an awesome “inside joke”.

Why is it most people who claim the gun 'just went off' are usually people who have poor gun handling skills. This seems to be the case once again. I have said this before and will say it again. Don't take a gun off while it is still holstered. Take the gun out and make it safe. Learn safe skills.

The issue of him "pointing the gun backward" certainly sounds as thoughe he attempted to remove the pistol in the holster.

Especially with a paddle holster, I remove the firearm, set it aside, then remove the holster. Likewise putting a paddle holster (or any holster) on. I put the holster on, then the pistol in it.

Guay's own description of his handling sounds rough at best.

Some people are simply incapable of accepting responsibility. It's alway someone/something else's fault. With something as frightening as a negligent discharge, many people will blame the object. It's part of an entire range of thought loosely classified as "criminal thinking." Doesn't mean everyone who engages in it is a criminal, but that can be the end result if the process is widely applied in life. That's why some people can lie with impunity about their actions.

Is this lawsuit ongoing? Does anyone know how to find out?

TBK

Having read the body of the lawsuit against Sig and
the included extensive list of law enforcement officers and agents who suffered injuries from the
P-320 discharging WHILE IN THE HOLSTER WITH NO
TRIGGER ACTION BY THE OFFICERS/AGENTS, I will NOT
be carrying either of my P-320s, but will resume carrying my P-229's. It's no wonder why my career
employer (US Secret Service) left Sig for Glock.
Can you imagine an agent with the President having such a holstered weapon as a P-320 discharge IN IT's Holster; thereby injuring the President as well as the agent? My P-320's hereby will only go
to the outdoor range; unholstered. One of them is
the Wilson Combat Sig. What a shame!