Gents,

Let's try the picture of the Prodigy again...

Wes

.45 ACP unto death. Have a P220 and a G30S for carry. And a 1911 in reserve...It's OK to trade capacity for power...

I carry my SIG P220 sometimes, but I mostly carry my GLOCK 22 .40S&W or GLOCK 17 9X19mm.

ARman

I EDC a Ruger SR1911 4.5” barrel 45.

It’s been a .9mm world for a long time. When I was on the force we carried Glock .45s on patrol. As a detective I carried a Smith & Wesson 6906. The Glock would pull down my britches it was so heavy.
I still own a Colt 1911. I love the look and the coolness but it’s not a great carry gun. It pretty much stays in the safe. I love my 6906 but it’s not a great range gun. I spend most my time with my HK VP 9 and my Sig P322. I am about to pull the trigger on a new .45. Leaning towards the HK but love my Sigs so it wouldn’t surprise me if I went that route. .45 is my preferred gun at home. It’s just too expensive to shoot much at the range. I’ll probably shoot 100 rounds through it and then 400-500 through the .22.

With a few exceptions, I still carry the same P-Series guns I've been carrying forever, a P229, P226 and a P239 all in .357 Sig. I recently picked up a couple of P227's, as I still think a very fast, lightweight .45 is a very formidable round, despite the drivel spewed by the FBI and their 'ballistics protocol' nonsense.

I have a very good friend that just started moving back to .40 S&W because his experience with the 9mm is that it just doesn't have the 'round per round' punch of larger calibers that he desires. I tend to agree.

I have 9mm's, like them and shoot them, but unless it's a really hot load, I prefer something much, much faster, like the .357 Sig, or even a 125 gr SJLHP .357 Magnum from a m66. A hot 185 gr +P 45 ACP is also just fine with me. Capacity is great, but if you *have* to shoot someone six or seven times to get a full stop, what have you really accomplished?

The reality of the ascendency of the 9mm is pure economics. Despite all the marketing white noise, the IG ninjas and the YouTube personality cult leaders proclaiming the 9mm is King of All, the fact is I think it's just simple economics... it's the least expensive conventional duty/self-defense/practice round out there. Washington has destroyed 95% of the value of the dollar since the big eared Kenyan got elected in 2008 by insanely overprinting currency, which has lead to runaway inflation. Like everything else, it's driven ammo prices through the roof.

The massive number of military and police contracts stipulate 9mm largely because of budgets...they can buy a lot more 9mm ammo than they can anything else, and the ammo companies stay geared up to serve those demands, which trickles down to the consumer, who benefits from the economy of scale. That's really what I think has put the nine on a pedestal. Law enforcement's widespread, misplaced faith in the FBI's "ballistic doctrine" may be the main argument to 'tactically' justify the switch to nine, but that's just frosting on the 9mm cinnamon roll.

If one can afford to shoot faster or larger calibers, go for it. Personally, I think loaded correctly, the .45 ACP is still a fantastic caliber....

I have a 1911 for nostalga reasons growing up 70-80's and my first sidearm in the army was a rattling 1911.

Not sure if I'll carry it much though. I do have some of the underwood rounds in a mag loaded up for outside the house.

quote:

Originally posted by Monti:
I EDC the P220 in .45 ACP

I picked up a police trade-in P220R for $600 and it's in mint condition. It came with the E2 grip which feels great. I'm in a waiting pattern to pick up from FFL <sigh> 11 more days.

I'm still carrying my Sig P220 Elite 45 is a full-size pistol, the anti fudds haven't convinced me to carry a 9mm yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Monti:
I'm still carrying my Sig P220 Elite 45 is a full-size pistol, the anti fudds haven't convinced me to carry a 9mm yet.

LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by longjohn:
So i am now 9mm, 10mm and .38. What do you .45 folks see as its strength ?? Nothing wrong with it but just curious as to the main draw to it.

I enjoy shooting different calibers as it keeps things fun and fresh at the range. It’s unique to shoot guns of the same caliber but different barell lengths. Personally, I don’t enjoy shooting pistols at the range with barrels under 4”. I have a S&W .38 that I carry. It’s not a fun gun to shoot a few hundred rounds at the range though. Same with my .Sig .380 but I love it for a CCW.
Next to a shotgun, I love a .45 for home defense. More knockdown and less concern about over penetration. Also, it’s like an old muscle car. There is just something cool about a .45. (I know..I own 4 .9mm and am currently waiting on my 2nd .45).
At the range, it’s mostly a9 and a .22. Less expensive to shoot is that driver.

Gents,

The older I get the more I realize that 9mm is a great cartridge, but the .45 ACP is better. I've carried the 1911 most of my adult life and as much as I like the SA Prodigy I have returned to the 1911 Commander. This one got me out of a rough spot several years back and is a cherished companion...



Carry what you like, train, and be competent. The rest is a matter of choice.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by Weshowe:
Gents,
The older I get the more I realize that 9mm is a great cartridge, but the .45 ACP is better.

I agree. While the 9mm is clearly capable of making a stop, so is a .22 or even a feeble .25. In fact, a hyper-pumped up pellet rifle can stop or kill, all depending on impact point.

The FBI has gone a long way, spend hundreds of millions since 1986 and employed a massive amount of resources to convince everyone that physics no longer applies, and the nine is now the absolute equal of any and every other handgun caliber...you must graduate to a rifle to get any hydrostatic shock of any value. But I simply don't agree. Yeah, there are a legion of ER surgeons that'll say more people are killed by nine than any other caliber, but then why wouldn't be the case? There's probably 100x as many nines on the street as anything else, as it's much more widely available. I don't wanna start a Morgue Monster vs Jello Junkie battle here, but it seems to me the FBI ballistics are heavily skewed towards a predetermined set of marks for success.

Having been in govt of some form since 1990, the biggest thing I've learned is the larger the agency or organization, the bigger the budget, the greater the greed to increase that budget, the bigger fear of and resistance to accountability and any subsequent loss of the budget and power for wrong doing, and therefore the bigger the entity is, the bigger the outright liar they are.

There is virtually zero truth coming from any large agency in DC, and the FBI is probably the worst liar of them all. They've committed acts of outright murder of US citizens, covered up shocking crimes of treason and sedition for leftist politicians and shredded the Constitution with heinous acts of illegal spying. We're supposed to trust them?

Everyone knows the 1986 Miami Massacre was the result of stupifyingly bad training and hubris. I don't blame the Agents at all, they got what their agency gave them and were taught that was good enough. They painfully found out their agency betrayed them with some of the most gawd awful training on Earth and instilled a believe that calling local SWAT teams was 'beneath' the FBI.

Sadly, after that tragedy, the FBI cynically blamed a single Winchester 9mm Silvertip bullet for the slaughter, then held a bogus 'Wound Ballistics Seminar that said "If that bullet fired by Dove had ONLY penetrated deeper in the heart, Platt would've died immediately, the other Agents could've taken Matix and this event would've not have happened the way it did." They then went on a quest to find a round that designed around "penetration penetration penetration!" because that backed up their fake reasoning for why the shootout happened...it was the fault of their horrible training, not Winchester. In fact, that Silvertip bullet did a pretty damn good job.

The Feebs are the same gang that told us the 9mm was the best before Miami, then afterwards went to the 147 gr 9mm to justify their 'Penetration is everything mantra!' (that was actually a round designed for SF types meant for an MP5, never a handgun), then decided the 10mm was "IT", then decided it was too powerful and castrated it into a 180 gr middleweight inferior to better .45's of the time, replaced that with the .40 S&W because "If you're gonna have a flaccid 180 gr bullet, might as well have it in a smaller gun". Then went back to the 9mm after "science" said that all bullets are now the same due to bullet design. Oh, and having a polystriker that's easier to fire with low recoil 9mm's and 17 rounds on tap is ballistically *the* superior choice, and not at all in part intended to give smaller, historically not-recruited candidates an easier time in qualifications. How does anyone take their protocols seriously?

And now, popular opinion says Sir Isaac Newton be damned, a .355 bullet weighing 135 grains strolling along at 1000fps is exactly as effective as:

.45 ACP+p 185 gr @ 1150 fps
.40 S&W 165 gr @ 1140 fps
.357 Sig 125 gr @ 1300 fps
.357 Mag 125 gr SJLHP @ 1450 fps
or even like for like, a 9mm Luger +P 124 gr @ 1250 fps

I don't buy it. If 'bullet design' has been so great, then it's been great across the board; a rising tide lifts all boats. I doubt Remington, Federal, Speer, Winchester and Hornady are saying "Hey, let's keep all this new great science in the FBI approved 9mm arena only and keep cranking the other calibers and loads to 1988 specs!"

As before, any bullet can disable or be fatal. But to say that there is no difference between a mediocre 9mm and powerful, street proven loads in larger or more potent calibers is just asking people to ignore reality. A punch in the chest from Tom Cruise is not the same as a punch in the chest from Evan Holyfield. Bodies are made of nerves that react to input, and people's individual chemistry, body composition, health status, emotional status, psychological status and the x-factor of the type of inner spirit they have cannot be accounted for by into shooting a static block of gelatin. "Barrier Blind" only means you've tuned a bullet to perform a specific way to a specific goal in a specific gel block, to hand picked standards that you think are right. That does not always align with real life.

Why is a field goal in football worth 3 points? Why not 4? Why is a touchdown 6, not 5? Because at some point someone just said so. Scoring mechanisms are defined by people who at some point have an agenda that may not actually be pointed in the direction of the best results or reality. The rush to the 9mm for economic and capacity reasons makes sense, I can buy those. But rushing to it because some Federal agency proclaimed it to be the equal of or superior to the .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 Mag or .357 Sig is just asking you to believe in their agenda with blind faith. Ain't gonna do it.

I'm not saying the 9mm is crap or not to carry it, but I am saying a hot loaded .45 ACP in the hands of a skilled, accurate shooter represents a distinctly more formidable force than any FBI 'approved' milquetoast 9mm load. Issues of cost, recoil and capacity are other real, but they are not the same as the performance issue. In terms of bullet to bullet performance, the best 9mm's IMHO simply cannot compete with the best .45 loads out there.

quote:

Originally posted by TexasRaider:
Why is a field goal in football worth 3 points? Why not 4? Why is a touchdown 6, not 5? Because at some point someone just said so. Scoring mechanisms are defined by people who at some point have an agenda that may not actually be pointed in the direction of the best results or reality.

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I do think the UN/NATO has something to do with the proliferation of the 9MM. Gee, I wonder if money has anything to do with it!

quote:

Originally posted by Weshowe:
The older I get the more I realize that 9mm is a great cartridge, but the .45 ACP is better. I've carried the 1911 most of my adult life and as much as I like the SA Prodigy I have returned to the 1911 Commander. This one got me out of a rough spot several years back and is a cherished companion...

Nice piece Wes. Yeah I have a Colt Combat Commander that I've updated a bit. It has the original flat top and it looks sexy as hell. Sadly, it doesn't get shot as much but it's still one of my favorites.

quote:

Originally posted by cnick6:

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I do think the UN/NATO has something to do with the proliferation of the 9MM. Gee, I wonder if money has anything to do with it!

It is a conspiracy! They want us to go metric.

Last .45 ACP that I had was a P220, a spare for my last duty gun. It along with my SIG P239 9mms were sold off in 2005 when I made the transition to the Glock 19.

I did have a Glock 37 in .45 GAP for a bit after that, but have not owned any other .45 ACP. If at some time (highly doubtful at this point in my life) I was to get another .45 ACP it would most likely by a Glock 30S.

quote:

Originally posted by Orive 8:
Last .45 ACP that I had was a P220, a spare for my last duty gun. It along with my SIG P239 9mms were sold off in 2005 when I made the transition to the Glock 19.

I did have a Glock 37 in .45 GAP for a bit after that, but have not owned any other .45 ACP. If at some time (highly doubtful at this point in my life) I was to get another .45 ACP it would most likely by a Glock 30S.

I can tell you with no fanboi DNA about my G30S.

Some months ago, I got into a bad batch of factory ammo, and like a complete idiot, didn't check it.

Firing that ammo was reminiscent of shooting a 12 oz Scandium revolver with Magnums.

Seriously painful, with a huge muzzle flash.

After checking myself for wounds, I checked the pistol. No defects.

Upon inspection, about half the bullets in that box were seated much too deep.

Two lessons: Don't use that particular ammo, and I can trust the gun,despite the 30S being lightweight, as it withstood the abuse well.

Started shooting some 50+ years ago on .45 1911's.
Now I'm reliant on the P220 SAO's.

Probably a mental thing, but if I think about going up against a MP5 or Thompson Tommy gun, I know what I'd pick.....
Just saying.

quote:

Probably a mental thing, but if I think about going up against a MP5 or Thompson Tommy gun, I know what I'd pick.....

What is none of the above and staying the hell home Alex.

As an aside this reminds me of an IPSC stage I did a long long time ago. Long story short you started outside on a grill, engaged a couple targets, cleared “your house” and then the “back yard”. Long story short there were like 10 targets by the end and all I could think was mental note never piss anybody off enough to send 10 folks to kill you and if you do don’t be grilling outside if you do.