It seems that we've gone from the Smith and Wesson Model 10, to the Beretta 92FS, to the 3rd Gen GLOCK 22 and now the 5th Gen GLOCK 17 as the king of LE pistols. I've always been a firm believer that nine is fine!

^^^ Good observation.

quote:

Smith and Wesson Model 10

But I would say "K-Frame" in general, but yes, lots of Model 10.

I was issued a glock 22 in my academy in 1999. It shot great UNTIL I MOUNTED A LIGHT ON IT. After that it kept jamming up on me. It got so bad that our dept took them from us and gave us the choice of a glock 21 or 19. I went to Sig after that.

The .40 just needs to go away.

Nothing wrong with Glocks in general, they work just fine.

What a lot of folks forget is that Glocks have had their fare share of growing pains and trouble as well.

The 320 is only a hair over 4 years old. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I was around when Glocks had been in the states about 4 years, and they weren't doing as well as the 320 is in terms of agencies adopted and use of the platform.

Now I am also taking into consideration that polymer guns are mainstream now, and they were extremely new when glocks were released, aside from the original VP pistol.

The 320 doesn't appeal to everyone and that's fine. For me I like it quite a bit, and all the ones I have seen, shot and trained with have performed flawlessly.

Without a doubt Glocks aren't going anywhere. They have solidified their place in history. But so did the 1911, and there aren't a lot of them in use by LE and military today.

The 320 is maturing into a solid platform, and it seems to have a very bright future a head of it.

Glock will have to make some drastic changes if they decide to come up with a new design, better ergos etc.

The 320 as an example, doesn't have the same constraints on it since it's fire control assembly is stand alone. Sig could completely redesign the 320 grip and slide, and still retain the fire control group.

With all that I'm not saying one I better than the other, I own several 320's and several glocks. I like them both for their own reasons.

After a long a daunted battle, the 320's are what occupy my duty holsters now.



TXPO

Caliber breakdown in NWA for this class:

19x .40
9x 9mm

No .45 this time, which is odd, since we usually have a handful in each class.

And most classes, the 40/9 split is closer to 50/50. I'm going to say this class is an anomaly, likely due to some hiring pushes from a couple .40 agencies.

I didn't get an exact model count, but it was 27 Glocks and 1 personal P320 Carry 9mm. The Glocks looked like they included a couple longslide G35s and a couple compact G23, with the rest being a mix of G17s and G22s. Only a few were Gen 5s.

I read that quickly and thought that 19x40 must be a helluva round.

IMHO, the GLOCK 17/19 and SIG P226/P228 are the best general issue service pistols there have ever been up to this point.

My agency gave officers the choice between 9, .40, and .45 when we switched to autos in the mid 90’s. .40 and .45 had the largest following with .40 clearly in the lead. We carried Sigs, and were happy with them.

As of last year, all new officers will be issued p320 9mm’s. Veterans have the choice to be issued classic short extractor P-series guns (I was forced out of my 94 triple serial P220 for a new P220R). Many vets are transitioning to the 320 as well, mainly due to the big gains in 9mm performance. I see the 9’s ruling the roost in less than 10 years, possibly sooner.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Caliber breakdown in NWA for this class:

19x .40
9x 9mm

No .45 this time, which is odd, since we usually have a handful in each class.

And most classes, the 40/9 split is closer to 50/50. I'm going to say this class is an anomaly, likely due to some hiring pushes from a couple .40 agencies.

I didn't get an exact model count, but it was 27 Glocks and 1 personal P320 Carry 9mm. The Glocks looked like they included a couple longslide G35s and a couple compact G23, with the rest being a mix of G17s and G22s. Only a few were Gen 5s.

Thanks, Rogue. Interesting breakdown. I'm surprised that there aren't more 9mm and .45.

I'll bet you're right on the .40 agencies and their new-hires. Even though we had more 9mm this time at my place, the .40 is still the overall big cartridge, at least in Arkansas for a few more years. The Gen 5 Glock 9mm and P320 9mm will finish the .40 off in the next 5 years, I believe.

My agency recently switched from P229 DAKs in .40 to M&P 2.0s in 9mm. Went from 165gr Gold Dot to 124gr +p. I love the gun. Unfortunately, the new agency I’m moving to is Gen4 G22s. Pffftt.

Our campus police recently switched to P320s in 9mm, too. Not sure their duty load.

quote:

Originally posted by jbourneidentity:

quote:

Originally posted by Watergoat:
Is anybody still using .357Sig?

Side-note: A friend of mine at that agency was recently cleared in an OIS, so I can mention it now. He was shot in the chest at point-blank range with a 9mm FMJ. Officer was wearing 2 panels in his exterior tac vest. The first panel (out of date) was easily penetrated; the second panel (new) stopped the bullet. My friend said the pain from the 9mm FMJ was excruciating and that he couldn't breathe. He returned fire from a distance of about 3-4 feet and hit the suspect in the chest and face with the .357 Golden Saber. I saw the post-mortem pics, and the injuries to the felon were horrific, to say the least.

I'd like to know a little more about this. I've never known soft armor to fail just because it was out of date. Do you have any more detail?

We carried Sig P220 for approximately 12 years. Then, we issued Glock 37/38 for a very short time.

We are now issued Glock gen4 17s and we have had zero issues. Surrounding county agencies are going gen 5 17s.

A few years ago Indiana State Police issued Glock 22 and had all kinds of issues to my recollection. I had heard that the superintendent at the time asked what guns would fit in the holsters and mag pouches they just purchased and ISP went with the 17s. They now issue Sig P227s.

I hope we transition soon to gen 5. My plain clothes/off-duty is a gen 5 19 and I couldn't be happier. Our lead firearms guy said he really hopes to let us choose between 34/17/19 as duty guns. I'm leaning toward a 19 for duty but I'd really like a 34!

Very interesting thread JBourne. It kind of amazes me when I see guys argue about the 9 vs. 40 and how superior the 40 is to the 9 despite all the ballistic evidence to the contrary. A Navy SEAL summed it up best IMHO when he said on another forum that "the 9mm is where it's at. Everything else is just chatter".

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Very interesting thread JBourne. It kind of amazes me when I see guys argue about the 9 vs. 40 and how superior the 40 is to the 9 despite all the ballistic evidence to the contrary. A Navy SEAL summed it up best IMHO when he said on another forum that "the 9mm is where it's at. Everything else is just chatter".

Two words sums it all up, Shot Placement". It doesn't matter the caliber, or what platform was used.



TXPO

quote:

Originally posted by Texaspoff:



Two words sums it all up, Shot Placement". It doesn't matter the caliber, or what platform was used.



TXPO

Well.....I'm sure glad somebody finally cleared that up.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by Texaspoff:



Two words sums it all up, Shot Placement". It doesn't matter the caliber, or what platform was used.



TXPO

Well.....I'm sure glad somebody finally cleared that up.

TXPO

Why hasn’t any Highway Patrol or other agencies adopted the H&K VP9 or VP40 I have heard that quite a few Nevada State Trooper carry them as personal duty gun anyone carry them in Arkansas?

It also seems like Beretta has all but disappeared in the LE Business I hope things will pick up since they now have a striker fire with the APX.

quote:

Originally posted by Nelson Kyle K:
Why hasn’t any Highway Patrol or other agencies adopted the H&K VP9 or VP40 I have heard that quite a few Nevada State Trooper carry them as personal duty gun anyone carry them in Arkansas?

I'm hard pressed to think of any US agency issuing H&K's. (Other than Jack Bauer at CTU of course. )
That may be why they started putting the button mag releases on some of the VP9's.

Interesting information by the OP and conversation that follows. Certainly confirms the trend towards moving to 9mm in several agencies, large and small, nationwide.

For me, I like 9mm and all that it offers today. I don't feel under gunned with 9mm.

On the other hand, don't understand this desire to marginalize the 40 when justifying 9mm. Overall I believe the 40 is still a better performing round in terms of terminal performance. Think its silly to infer advances in bullet technology only benefitted the 9mm, and not 40. Ditto comparing the reliability and performance of old Gen 3 Glocks paired with a known bad light interface, is a fair comparison with later Glock generations, the 320 platform or others.

The .40 may wain a bit more in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised that we are only one high profile ammunition failure away that shifts the trend back the other way. Sorta fun witnessing the .40 living rent free in peoples head each time the viability of 9mm comes up as a topic.


TR