quote:

Originally posted by Watergoat:
Is anybody still using .357Sig?

The Pennsylvania Game Commision.
.357 Sig caliber in a Glock.

quote:

Originally posted by Watergoat:
Is anybody still using .357Sig?

We have a single small agency nearby in NE Arkansas that uses the .357 Sig, but in the 11 years I've been there, I've only seen 2-3 of their officers come through with Glock 31s. Their duty load is the Remington Golden Saber 125-gr. .357 Sig. Neither the .357 Sig nor 10mm Auto are ever represented in any appreciable numbers at our LE academy.

Side-note: A friend of mine at that agency was recently cleared in an OIS, so I can mention it now. He was shot in the chest at point-blank range with a 9mm FMJ. Officer was wearing 2 panels in his exterior tac vest. The first panel (out of date) was easily penetrated; the second panel (new) stopped the bullet. My friend said the pain from the 9mm FMJ was excruciating and that he couldn't breathe. He returned fire from a distance of about 3-4 feet and hit the suspect in the chest and face with the .357 Golden Saber. I saw the post-mortem pics, and the injuries to the felon were horrific, to say the least.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The efficient little nine rules the world

Yes, sir. It surely does.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Our academy is starting Range Week on Monday. If I get chance, I'll post the caliber breakdown for cadets from the Northwest corner of the state.

But I do know that one of the largest agencies in the area is in the process of transitioning from .40 to 9mm, and several of the others have already been 9mm for a while.

Rogue, anyone using the .357 Sig up there in NW Arkansas?

A quick breakdown on the types of handguns used last week:

9mm (26): Almost all handguns were Gen 5 Glock 17s. Oddly, there were no Glock 19s (I figure this is because we train mostly patrol officers). Gen 4 Glock 17s are being steadily replaced by Gen 5s. There were 3 Glock 45 9mms which were issued to Game & Fish students the Friday before range week. There were 4 Sig P320 FS (no P320 Compacts for the same reason there were no G19s). So, 22 Glock 9mm handguns and 4 Sig P320s. There were no other brands represented, and this is common. Most importantly, there were ZERO malfunctions with 9mm handguns all week, and we shot in rain with two days of 30-40mph south winds. Hideous weather; almost unprecedented. Sig and Glock have outstanding 9mm handguns.

.40 (17): Almost all were Gen 3 Glock 22s that are approaching 20 years of age. Chiefs and sheriffs continue to issue this unreliable combo without a second thought, right down to the Clinton-era pre-ban mags. Without the WML, they're reliable; with the WML, it's a TOTALLY UNRELIABLE combo. I spent 2-3 hours in maintenance with the Gen 3 G22/WML combo (installing 11-coil mag springs, updated G22 mag followers, new recoil springs, and Super Lube grease). This helped sometimes, but not always. The Gen 4 G22/WML combo is far more reliable, but not without problems if the officer is using older magazines. Glock was the only .40 represented. A nearby agency issues P226 .40s and these have been supremely reliable but they did not send officers this time.

.45 (7): All Glock 21s; mostly Gen 4 but a few Gen 3. Completely and totally reliable, as is the case every semester. Very accurate. Many of our "top shot" students have been G21-equipped students. No other brands of .45 were represented.

Practice ammo: Remington FMJ in all handgun calibers. I saw no ammo-related issues or bad rounds. A few years ago, we had so many issues with Remington that we switched to Speer. Remington called us and asked us to return to their brand because their ammo had been improved. We did, and it is certainly better now.

quote:

Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
Rogue, anyone using the .357 Sig up there in NW Arkansas?

Nope. Same three calibers as ya'll. 9/40/45.

I've read about issues with the Glock 22 with a light, but ran a G22 with an M3 for 16 years without an issue, then switched to a TLR-1 HL for both my G22 and a G17 for thousands of rounds without issues. I can see how someone could tighten the screw down so tight that there would be cycling problems.

The issue of .40 Glocks malfing with WMLs attached goes back to the first days Gen 3 Glocks. Nothing new at all. Back then (mid-1998) Surefire was offering up some huge WMLs, pre-X series lights, and those things made .40 caliber Glocks unusable.
I've used X-series Surefire lights on railed G17s and 19s since the X-200 was introduced and I've never had any trouble that was not attributable to bad ammunition or my own stupidity (incorrect re-assembly sequence in a G34- Installing the slide release lever before the locking block pin, thus turning the pistol into a single shot which locks open after each shot due to insufficient tension on the slide lock spring).

May I suggest that the .40 caliber Glocks just go away? When the cartridge was introduced innthe 1990s, it made sense, but now 9x19mm ammunition has negated the edge of the .40.

quote:

Originally posted by 808:

quote:

Originally posted by Watergoat:
Is anybody still using .357Sig?

The Pennsylvania Game Commision.
.357 Sig caliber in a Glock.

Montana Highway Patrol issues the P229 in 357 SIG.

quote:

Originally posted by Watergoat:
Is anybody still using .357Sig?

LaPorte County, IN sheriffs. SIG P229s. AFAIK they can carry qualified BUGs and some do carry G33’s.

Almost everybody else around uses Glocks, mostly .40S&W or 9mm.

I find the use of older mags unbeleieveable...given the cost of magazines, you’d think they would be rotated out after a few years...especially in law enforcement where they are for sure loaded for expressed period of time.

quote:

Originally posted by pointman73:
I've read about issues with the Glock 22 with a light, but ran a G22 with an M3 for 16 years without an issue, then switched to a TLR-1 HL for both my G22 and a G17 for thousands of rounds without issues. I can see how someone could tighten the screw down so tight that there would be cycling problems.

I also had a G22C at my former agency that never had a single issue in a decade of carry, even after we got M-3 lights for our G22s around 2002. The G22 ran reliably with the M-3.

My friend, the minute that I strapped a TLR-1 or X-300 on, my formerly 100% reliable G22C became totally unreliable no matter how I backed off the retention screw on the TLR-1. It's the same with our students.

This has been an ongoing, huge problem for years, but I cannot convey to you how much of an issue it truly is with most Gen 3 G22/TLR-1 samples. I'd say 80-90% of our G22/TLR-1 combos are not reliable for duty carry. We even had a Gen 3 G35/TLR-1 that was useless as long as the WML was attached, even with its additional slide mass and momentum.

Because your G22/TLR-1 ran reliably, you are truly fortunate and that's a good thing. Sad to say, our collective experience at the academy over hundreds of G22/TLR-1 samples has been a catastrophe to the point that I wrote a 3-page synopsis about the problem and give a copy every semester to our new students. It's so bad that I personally called our local sheriff and told him that his deputies were going to die in gunfights if he continued with this combo. Happily, he listened. Gen 5 G17s and G19s are on order for the agency and HST +P will be the duty load.

It's so awful that the combo often turns into a "single shot pistol," with students reaching up and racking the slide on every single nose-dived round in order to get the G22 back into battery. Guess what? When I make them take the WML off and the G22 actually works, they still want to reach up and rack the slide on their properly functioning G22s. It's muscle memory now, and hard to correct. Live rounds are often on the ground where the students, so accustomed to malfunctions, rack rounds out of a properly functioning handgun. It's a catastrophe. I don't blame Glock, and I don't blame Streamlight. The .40 combo just doesn't work. There are zero issues with Glock 9mm/.45 and WMLs.

I agree with Para. I'm just ready for the .40, and especially the G22/TLR-1 combo, to go away from our range and LE. You'd just have to see it to believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Interesting. Did they look at the Federal HST in their testing?

The Op. said they require Bonded Ammunition which excludes HST.

quote:

Originally posted by JBP55:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Interesting. Did they look at the Federal HST in their testing?

The Op. said they require Bonded Ammunition which excludes HST.

This is an outstanding point. I did not think about this when I was talking to the ASP trooper about HST. Even though the HST holds together, it is not specifically listed as bonded and that probably is why HST wasn't considered as a duty round by the ASP. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:
I find the use of older mags unbeleieveable...given the cost of magazines, you’d think they would be rotated out after a few years...especially in law enforcement where they are for sure loaded for expressed period of time.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but the old G22 mags abide. I must've handled 10-15 Clinton-era G22 mags this week alone.

I was talking to 5 Minnesota State Patrol Troopers Wednesday at the Twin Cities Auto Show they were showing of their Brand New 2019 AWD Dodge Charger squads and had a 1980 Dodge Saint Regis squad there too, but any how get to the point the MNSP just went too the Glock 17 Gen 5 with AMERIGLO night sights on them replacing their Glock 22 Gen 4 they were all very happy with the switch to the 9MM and love their 17 much better then the 22’s and as a side note none had Weapon Mounted Lights on them for some reason just found it interesting. On of my favorite State Trooper Agency is Arizona they just went with the Glock 17 Gen 5 too I’m happy to hear that the Arkansas State Police are going with the exact Sidearm I carry I love my Glock 17 Gen5 a lot.

I'm surprised nobody uses the Glock 41 .45. It's lighter than a G21 with a longer barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
A quick breakdown on the types of handguns used last week:

9mm (26): Almost all handguns were Gen 5 Glock 17s. Oddly, there were no Glock 19s (I figure this is because we train mostly patrol officers). Gen 4 Glock 17s are being steadily replaced by Gen 5s. There were 3 Glock 45 9mms which were issued to Game & Fish students the Friday before range week. There were 4 Sig P320 FS (no P320 Compacts for the same reason there were no G19s). So, 22 Glock 9mm handguns and 4 Sig P320s. There were no other brands represented, and this is common. Most importantly, there were ZERO malfunctions with 9mm handguns all week, and we shot in rain with two days of 30-40mph south winds. Hideous weather; almost unprecedented. Sig and Glock have outstanding 9mm handguns.

.40 (17): Almost all were Gen 3 Glock 22s that are approaching 20 years of age. Chiefs and sheriffs continue to issue this unreliable combo without a second thought, right down to the Clinton-era pre-ban mags. Without the WML, they're reliable; with the WML, it's a TOTALLY UNRELIABLE combo. I spent 2-3 hours in maintenance with the Gen 3 G22/WML combo (installing 11-coil mag springs, updated G22 mag followers, new recoil springs, and Super Lube grease). This helped sometimes, but not always. The Gen 4 G22/WML combo is far more reliable, but not without problems if the officer is using older magazines. Glock was the only .40 represented. A nearby agency issues P226 .40s and these have been supremely reliable but they did not send officers this time.

.45 (7): All Glock 21s; mostly Gen 4 but a few Gen 3. Completely and totally reliable, as is the case every semester. Very accurate. Many of our "top shot" students have been G21-equipped students. No other brands of .45 were represented.

Practice ammo: Remington FMJ in all handgun calibers. I saw no ammo-related issues or bad rounds. A few years ago, we had so many issues with Remington that we switched to Speer. Remington called us and asked us to return to their brand because their ammo had been improved. We did, and it is certainly better now.

I’ve been using the Remington brown box, “LE/Mil” 115 grain FMJ trainjng ammo because of a sale at PSA but have been pleasantly surprised. It has proven cleaner, more accurate and mkre reliable than the problematic. Remington / UMC of recent years.

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:
I find the use of older mags unbeleieveable...given the cost of magazines, you’d think they would be rotated out after a few years...especially in law enforcement where they are for sure loaded for expressed period of time.

The issue with older G22 mags as noted earlier is Glock has made improvements to the subsequent generations of magazine, including improved followers and stronger springs.

There is an ongoing but incorrect impression that leaving magazines loaded harms the springs. That is not how springs wear. Rather, it is cycles of compression and expansion which causes wear and weakening of springs in the form of micro cracks.

A magazine (and its spring) which is loaded and unloaded regularly, whether administratively or by firing, will wear more / faster than a magazine left loaded continuously for the same period of time.

Magazines, particular polymer magazines are wear items which require periodic replacement just like springs. Don’t fall in love with yours magazines.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
I'm surprised nobody uses the Glock 41 .45. It's lighter than a G21 with a longer barrel.

I have a G41 and like it for plinking but shoot a G41 and a G21 on the clock and the timer will demonstrate the preference for the G21.