I carry Glock 20 with hard cast rounds and a 45-70 with similar rounds. I've thought of 45 ACP hard cast but like the Glock based on capacity.

I finally got in some of the Underwood Heavy Hard Cast 255 .45ACP +P and put it to the test today.

Same "protocol" as before: 4 Layers of fabric, a milk jug, 3/4" hardwood plywood board, then a row of milk jugs.



I did a bunch of chronograph work first. The Underwood load was clocking 903FPS out of my P220 Compact, which is less than the advertised 950FPS, but still pretty impressive considering it's a 255gr bullet. In comparison, my 230Gr handload from the original test was clocked at 870 FPS, and factor 230Gr Federal Hydrashocks were even slower at 858FPS out of the same gun.

My first attempt at the jugs travelled through 45" of the column before deviating out the side and I saw it kick dust up in the berm.

I had enough jugs to try one more time, and that attempt was on the money. It went through 53" of the column, exited a jug and then bounced off the front of the next one leaving a dent. I found the projectile about a foot off to the side in the snow. There are some scratches but no deformation.






I brought the .44s today and chronographed them, but I didn't have enough jugs to test penetration, so that will have to wait for another day. The underwood .44 Magnum 255gr Keith SWC went 1177 FPS out of the 2 3/4" Model 69, and 1240 FPS out of the 4.1" Model 329PD. So +/- 300fps faster with the same bullet weight. I'm looking forward to seeing what the difference is with the jugs.

Interesting. I bought some double tap heavy hard cast 255s to carry in my G30 in the bear country around here but got huge guppy-belly case bulging to the point where I was afraid to use it. Worked ok in my 1911 but I don't pack my 1911 on hikes.

I don't have a chronograph but they did feel pretty hot.

I lost the brass in the snow today, so I can't say what condition it was in but it honestly didn't feel all that hot shooting it. Everything cycled fine, it fit in the mags (which was a concern because Sig 230gr VCrown does not!), and the gun shot to point of aim. I'll have to try again sometime when I can recover the brass and confirm before I commit to buying any more. The .44 brass looked good...no pressure signs and easy extraction even out of the titanium cylinder.

This load in interesting for a .45:

https://www.lostriverammocompa...st-Flat-Point-50-RND

quote:

Originally posted by GJM AK:
This load in interesting for a .45:

https://www.lostriverammocompa...st-Flat-Point-50-RND

That's actually very similar to the Underwood load I just tested, but Underwood rated theirs at 950FPS instead of 925. I didn't quite see that, but the barrel in my 220 Compact is only 3.75" long...I'll bet if I put them through my 5" 1911 they'd be at or very close to the advertised velocity. I should probably try that, just to see. The Underwood stuff was considerably cheaper, too.

quote:

The Underwood load was clocking 903FPS out of my P220 Compact, which is less than the advertised 950FPS, but still pretty impressive considering it's a 255gr bullet.

Trivia, that is about what a .45 Colt with the full 40 grains of black will do in the original 7 1/2" cavalry revolver.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:

quote:

The Underwood load was clocking 903FPS out of my P220 Compact, which is less than the advertised 950FPS, but still pretty impressive considering it's a 255gr bullet.

Trivia, that is about what a .45 Colt with the full 40 grains of black will do in the original 7 1/2" cavalry revolver.

I've always been a fan of the .45 Colt. Maybe this is just my subconscious pushing me to see if I can squeeze it into an autoloader .

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by GJM AK:
This load in interesting for a .45:

https://www.lostriverammocompa...st-Flat-Point-50-RND

That's actually very similar to the Underwood load I just tested, but Underwood rated theirs at 950FPS instead of 925. I didn't quite see that, but the barrel in my 220 Compact is only 3.75" long...I'll bet if I put them through my 5" 1911 they'd be at or very close to the advertised velocity. I should probably try that, just to see. The Underwood stuff was considerably cheaper, too.

The new Garmin chrono is so small and easy to use, I have been chronographing loads when checking out a new pistol. With Underwood, their 10mm hard cast was close in average velocity, but their Xtreme penetrators had 100 fps or more variation.

I went back out today and shot a bit more of this stuff through my 5" 1911, and one round through the P220 Compact so I could check the brass (had to dig through the snow to recover them, not fun). There were no pressure signs from either gun...no bulging, no flat primers, nothing like that. Out of the 1911 it actually exceeded Underwood's claimed numbers at an average of 964 fps.

I actually found some 255gr .45ACP load data in an old manual (not as easy to come by as one might think) and tried out a starting load at the very bottom of the load range with Unique. They chambered, fed, and cycled fine, and chronod at 824 fps out of the P220 Compact and 901 fps out of the 1911. No pressure signs, and there's still a lot of room left in the data to work up.

I also picked up a box of Buffalo Bore 158gr 38+P Outdoorsman to try out at the same time. This stuff is stout, it's at 1050 fps out of my little 1 7/8" barreled 360J, which is right up there with most .357 Mag loads out of the same size gun. It also hit to point of aim and extracted easy, with no pressure signs on the ammo. I was impressed.

Wow! That really is +P in .38 Special! I learned not to shoot buffalo bore stuff in my 340. I'd rather be eaten by a bear. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
Wow! That really is +P in .38 Special! I learned not to shoot buffalo bore stuff in my 340. I'd rather be eaten by a bear. LOL

I'd been wanting to try that load in my 360J for over a year and finally got my hands on some. My gun is chambered in .38+P instead of .357 like most 360s, but supposedly the construction is identical. The story is that they were a batch of overruns from an order for the Japanese police, and they cut the chambers shorter to avoid making it "magnum" for political reasons. Whatever the case, I was able to buy it brand new for $414 a number of years back, which even then was excellent for a scandium gun.

It's a great trail gun for hiking east of the Mississippi because it weighs less than a pound, but I always felt a little undergunned with lighter .38s loads. Eastern bears tend to be small, but they're still bears. I'd considered buying another one in .357, but they're expensive, and then I discovered that this load exists. It seems to have lived up to it's reputation...that's as much performance as I ever want to squeeze out of this thing, that's for sure! I won't feed it a lot of these (I may never even buy another box), but it's nice to have the option when you want it.

I tested this Doubletap ammo out of a Nighthawk Falcon

https://doubletapammo.com/coll...d-defensea-jhp-20rds

My medium was a 1/4" thick piece of leather over a 1# bologna pack backed by a black bear shoulder blade and then 6-1 gallon waterjugs.

From 10 yards its penetrated 30" and expanded to .68" that is better than the 180 grain Underwood 10mm I tried which only went to 25" and expanded to .55" from a 5" Springfield TRP

quote:

Originally posted by badguybuster:
I tested this Doubletap ammo out of a Nighthawk Falcon

https://doubletapammo.com/coll...d-defensea-jhp-20rds

My medium was a 1/4" thick piece of leather over a 1# bologna pack backed by a black bear shoulder blade and then 6-1 gallon waterjugs.

From 10 yards its penetrated 30" and expanded to .68" that is better than the 180 grain Underwood 10mm I tried which only went to 25" and expanded to .55" from a 5" Springfield TRP

That's pretty impressive penetration for a hollow point, especially with that much expansion! Kind of a different thing than I'm going for with the hard-cast, though. I'm trying to avoid expansion/deformation to get the maximum penetration.

I finally accumulated enough milk jugs to try this again with the short barreled .44 (2 3/4" Model 69). Same conditions as last time: 4 layers of cloth, milk jug, 3/4" hardwood plywood, then a column of water-filled milk jugs.

The load used was the Underwood 255gr Kieth SWC Hard-Cast, which was chronographed at 1177fps out of this gun.

The first attempt made it 60" before deviating out the side of a jug. The second attempt yielded a captured slug inside of a jug after 65" of travel.



So I guess this satisfies my question. 255gr hard cast .45ACP +P out of my P220 compact yielded 53" of penetration. So even out of a short barrel, the .44 Mag is penetrating an extra foot.

I also confirmed zero with this load in my 329PD today in preparation for our upcoming Alaska trip. That gun is so nice to carry, but oh so horrible to shoot, lol. My chronograph tells me I'm getting almost 100fps more out of it than the Model 69, though. Once I get enough milk jugs around again, that'll be the next one to test.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
...The underwood .44 Magnum 255gr Keith SWC went 1177 FPS out of the 2 3/4" Model 69...

Hot damn that is stout. I wonder what that load does out of a lever action carbine.

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
...The underwood .44 Magnum 255gr Keith SWC went 1177 FPS out of the 2 3/4" Model 69...

Hot damn that is stout. I wonder what that load does out of a lever action carbine.

I have a 16" 1894. I haven't tried it yet, but the day is coming (it's gonna take a lot of milk jugs, though lol). I'll probably have to pretty much single-load them as that gun hates SWCs. I typically feed it round-nose flat points. I'll bet these will come smoking out of that longer tube. I'm saving what I've got left for the Alaska trip, but after I get back I'll get the levergun out and see what the leftovers will do over the chronograph.

Thanks for posting your results. I'd love to see what it will do in calibrated ballistic gel but that's a PITA

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
I would forget about 45ACP

Myself I would be carrying full power 10MM FMJ in my M&P or one of my other 10MM auto loaders. That makes for easy over the counter ammo


Or I would be running FMJ 45SUPER in a full size USP



I have gone through 10s of thousands or rounds of the 45SUPER over the decades and have full confidence in the cartridge

Since the USP carries 14 rounds in the flush magazine vs. 15 rounds in the M&P with both rounds being comparable in energy, I think I would be carrying the bigger bore pistol

There's a great and very long thread on this over at PistolForum.com with a great deal of input by a gent who spends a great deal of time in AK. His choice in a carry handgun is the USP shooting .45 Super as it will handle a steady diet of those rounds. He and his wife are both shooters and his choices are in no way limited by funds.

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
Thanks for posting your results. I'd love to see what it will do in calibrated ballistic gel but that's a PITA

A PITA, and expensive. If I had access to some I'd use it, but I don't. I've made gelatin blocks in the past, but those weren't calibrated either, so this is just about as meaningful, and much easier and cheaper. It's definitely no analog for tissue, but at least it provides some type of penetration comparison relative to the other rounds.