quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
I think one should put the Lehigh Defense offerings into the mix when it comes to max performance. One can load themselves or buy loaded ammo.

There may not be a bunch of real world uses yet, but testing is somewhat impressive. Most are basically a lighter copper bullet, no need to mushroom.

I have a variety of solid copper stuff that I carry in 9mm, 10mm, .357, and .45. My wife's woods gun is my Gen 5 G19 full of G9 copper solids, because it's what she can shoot effectively. Not the world's best bear gun but should be adequate for kitties.

For a hunting sidearm in my state, we're allowed to carry any projectile that is "designed by its manufacturer to create a large wound channel larger than the bullet's diameter." So, no hard cast lead if you have any intention of shooting a game animal with it. For that reason, I will be arming myself with either my G40 MOS or my Freedom Arms .357 loaded with either Lehighs or G9s as we get into big game/trophy game seasons here.

Going back to the original post. a 255-grain hard-cast lead bullet out of a Sig P220 is going to be one helluva pistol to control in rapid fire. Try shooting a full magazine of 230-grain +P from a draw into a 3-in circle at seven yards in under two or three seconds. Hitting a charging bear in the brain pan won't be easy. A 100-percent steel .45 with a five-inch barrel would probably be a tad easier to control and make hits.

It seems like some will carry a 10mm up in Alaska. Talk to the locals. Hard-cast lead does penetrate bone well. 10mm cast lead stuff generates nearly 300 foot pounds of energy more than a .45 ACP. FMJ bullets sometimes slide off a skull plate of a horse or cow in .45 ACP. (I've not tackled a bear with one, PTL!) The lead seems to drill in even if hit at an angle. Conventional hollow points sometimes break up on the bone and don't penetrate.

quote:

Originally posted by somerled:
Going back to the original post. a 255-grain hard-cast lead bullet out of a Sig P220 is going to be one helluva pistol to control in rapid fire. Try shooting a full magazine of 230-grain +P from a draw into a 3-in circle at seven yards in under two or three seconds. Hitting a charging bear in the brain pan won't be easy. A 100-percent steel .45 with a five-inch barrel would probably be a tad easier to control and make hits.

It seems like some will carry a 10mm up in Alaska. Talk to the locals. Hard-cast lead does penetrate bone well. 10mm cast lead stuff generates nearly 300 foot pounds of energy more than a .45 ACP. FMJ bullets sometimes slide off a skull plate of a horse or cow in .45 ACP. (I've not tackled a bear with one, PTL!) The lead seems to drill in even if hit at an angle. Conventional hollow points sometimes break up on the bone and don't penetrate.

I didn't think the 255gr Underwoods were that bad on the recoil out of my P220 Compact. I'm positive I could deliver 6 or 7 rounds accurately and faster out of it than I could out of my big-bore magnum revolvers.

Bullet profile and construction definitely matters. That wide, flat meplat on a SWC or cast flat point cuts through stuff without glancing off. On the downside, those profiles don't always feed as reliably in the semi-autos, which is one of the arguments for a revolver.

Used up another batch of Milk jugs today.



First was the 155gr Underwood .44 Mag load out of the 16" Marlin 1894. This chronographed at 1584fps out of the rifle, so about 300fps faster than the revolvers. Interestingly it didn't penetrate as far. Not sure if maybe it was just an anomaly since I'm working with a sample size of one shot per firearm, or if it was becasue the bullet's nose deformed more at the higher impact velocity so it slowed down faster. The gas check separated at the first jug behind the board, and I recovered the bullet at 48 inches.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to start over with the .44 testing because Underwood discontinued the 255gr Keith Hard Cast that I was testing, and I don't have any more .

The next bullet I tested was the Buffalo Bore 158gr Outdoorsman load. I shot this (and the other .38s) out of an S&W 642-2 with 1 7/8" barrel. They chronograph at 1050fps out of this gun. It penetrated to 32", but it must have tumbled on impact, because while the .44s just punched right through the board, this one tore the hell out of the backside (the gaping hole at the top left, compared to the other holes that are .44s and .45s). I was pretty impressed with this one for a .38 Spcl load out of a snubby.




This revolver hits to point of aim with 110gr bullets, so I decided to try a couple of loads with those as well. The first load was a 110gr Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special (non +p) load. It chronographs at 785fps out of this gun. This stuff sucks. I realize its not intended to be a heavy penetrating load, but its performance was horrible. It made it though the denim and the first jug and then embedded itself in the board. I'd never consider using this as a woods load, but after seeing this I wouldn't even use it for people. Overall penetration was 6".




The last load I tested was my own 110gr XTP .38 Special +P Handload. I'm using Power Pistol which is kinda flashy but consistent, and pushes these at 952fps out of the snubby. I got 18" with these, which I'm ok with for their intended use.

Final results to-date:

Underwood 255gr .45 ACP +P out of P220 Compact at 903fps: 53"
Underwood 255Gr SWC .44 Mag out of 2 3/4" S&W Model 69 at 1177 fps: 65"
Underwood 255Gr SWC .44 Mag out of 4.1" S&W Model 329PD at 1274 fps: 64"
Underwood 255Gr SWC .44 Mag out of 16" Marlin 1894 at 1584 fps: 48"
Buffalo Bore 158gr SWC .38 +P out of 1 7/8" S&W 642 at 1050fps: 32"
Hornady 110gr Critical Defense out of 1 7/8" S&W 642 at 785 fps: 6"
Hornady 110gr XTP Handload out of 1 7/8" S&W 642 at 952 fps: 18"


Oh, and penetration aside, the difference in energy delivery between the .38 and .44 is pretty spectacular. The .38 puches holes, or maybe splits the jug a bit. The .44 does this: