quote:

Originally posted by MWC:
Here's an excellent video on how the 320 safeties work.

Excellent indeed! Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
So, the pocket of the father of the boy who killed his friend is too shallow. The logical step is blame the gun and go after big money. That's the American way.

Yup. Don't blame the idiot who improperly cleared his weapon and left it out where kids could get it, or the idiot kid who took it out and pointed it at somebody and pulled the trigger (and yeah, he's an idiot...my 13 year-old...hell, my 6 year-old!...know better than to do that). Instead, sue the manufacturer because at one point in time there was a defect that could cause the gun to discharge unintentionally under a very specific set of conditions that have nothing to do with the current case.

I hate slimy, irresponsible people who won't man up and take responsibility for their actions. And I hate that our legal system enables them.

Agreed. I think it is more often malice or negligence than equipment failure.

There was a case here in which a person was wounded and it was passed off as an AD due to a known weakness of the specific gun. But people will talk and it eventually came out that it was a domestic dispute that ended with a loud bang and suddenly everybody was very sorry. But a knowledgeable member of the household was able to provide a plausible legend.

quote:

Originally posted by MWC:
Here's an excellent video on how the 320 safeties work. Draw your own conclusions, but I don't think the 320 fires itself.

https://youtu.be/dPKMu47uWXQ

It's almost as if that video was a response to the following video put out by a law firm.



I have to admit, the CG animation is very well done and convincing. Every incompetent who had a ND w/ their P320 would watch that video and declare, "It was the gun's fault!"

Young boys are atracted to firearms. It's been that way since guns were invented.

Some of us were lucky. In my case, the only thing I ended up shooting was my mother's Kenmore dishwasher when I was 11 or 12.

Others are not so lucky, and it's not the firearm that's responsible- it's the shooter. The parents are angry. They want to lash out, and this is how they do it. SIG may give them some money. I hope they don't.

quote:

The original report of a 320 firing came from a competitor gun dealer

Actually the initial report of a drop fire issue came from the US Army, discovered during the pistol trials that SIG ultimately won. This was perhaps 10 months prior to the Omaha Outdoors test video.

When was the animation made? Prior to the upgrade? Are the conditions set forth in the animation corrected in post upgrade guns?

Remember that these are the allegations of a lawsuit, and the plaintiff will have to prove them to be true.

I haven't followed the P320 defect all that closely, but it never seemed to me that the gun ever "just went off," so they may have problems proving their allegations.

Sig should request a new autopsy, as it would probably reveal the teen actually died from covid.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Sig should request a new autopsy, as it would probably reveal the teen actually died from covid.

Politics in an apolitical thread. You know better.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
When was the animation made? Prior to the upgrade? Are the conditions set forth in the animation corrected in post upgrade guns?

The animation was posted on YT on 28 Aug 2021 and is copyrighted 2021. The P320 Safety Mechanisms video posted by Sig Mechanics was posted 17 Nov 2021. They also just posted a P320 - Pre vs. Post Upgrade Analysis (2021) video today.

Whether the CG animation video represents a pre or post upgrade P320 I think depends on which version his clients have. Jeffery Bagnell is an attorney who represents several LEOs suing Sig Sauer over unintentional discharges from their P320s.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:
It's almost as if that video was a response to the following video put out by a law firm.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
When was the animation made? Prior to the upgrade?

The video iron chef linked was of the pre-“upgrade” gun. The animation in that video does not show the disconnector and the sear does not have the second intercept notch.

My P320 must be defective. I bought a 9mm Sig P320C in January 2015. It has not had the upgrade.

1) It has never "gone off" by itself. ONLY when I press the trigger. This is a real PITA because I'm an Old Guy and have arthritis in my fingers. It would be much easier on me if I didn't have to press the damn trigger each time I fired it.

2) It "goes off" EVERY time I DO pull the trigger. Given this defect, I always make sure I am not pointing it at a living person. Sometimes, at my age, it's easy to forget this. However, I AM thinking of running for President.

3)Harking back to earlier issues, I have never tossed my gun downrange on a concrete floor. Thinking about giving it a try a few times just to see what happens.

4)The Hillsborough County teen accused of killing his friend will now help "preach" the importance of gun safety. Hallelujah! What better way to learn gun safety...shoot somebody first. Cheaper than taking an NRA course.

Pardon the frivolity. While I have sympathy for the parents, I have none for the bottom feeeders.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Otters are mustelids, and are cousins to wolverines and honey badgers. These were obviously closer cousins than other otters.

Was that response intended for the following thread, or is it an inside joke about the P320?
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/1250007784

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Otters are mustelids, and are cousins to wolverines and honey badgers. These were obviously closer cousins than other otters.

Was that response intended for the following thread, or is it an inside joke about the P320?
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/1250007784

Missposted!

quote:

These mishaps do seem to revolve around cops. Almost exclusively.

Bingo.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I'm not even slightly interested in the unsecured pistol aspect of this case; this wasn't a 5 year old that had no idea what they were doing. This was a teen fucking around with dad's gun.

As for the gun "going off" all by itself, anyone that knows anything about guns knows that story is horseshit.

Actually law in FL is it has to be locked up if you have kids under 16 in the house,

Section 790.174, Florida Statutes, requires a loaded firearm in the home to be stored in a locked box container or secured with a trigger lock if the owner reasonably knows that a child under the age of 16 can gain access to the firearm. A violation of this law is a misdemeanor.

Have to agree on the "going off on it's own" claim or defect claim. Some attorney read about the P320 drop issue, and convinced everyone that suing Sig and Shoot Straight was the answer, maybe a part of the deal for settlement for the shooter and cop...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Actually law in FL is it has to be locked up if you have kids under 16 in the house

That should be the practice if there are any irresponsible people who could have ready access to a gun, and irresponsible includes all children, regardless of age. I was in my early teens when I started following gun rights issues and one of the stories that still sticks with me from 60+ years ago was about a man whose mentally ill wife used his gun to kill herself. He was citing that incident as why guns should be banned, and even at my age then I could only marvel at the fact that he took no responsibility for having left a gun accessible to someone who was mentally ill.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
So, the pocket of the father of the boy who killed his friend is too shallow. The logical step is blame the gun and go after big money. That's the American way.

Yup. Don't blame the idiot who improperly cleared his weapon and left it out where kids could get it, or the idiot kid who took it out and pointed it at somebody and pulled the trigger (and yeah, he's an idiot...my 13 year-old...hell, my 6 year-old!...know better than to do that). Instead, sue the manufacturer because at one point in time there was a defect that could cause the gun to discharge unintentionally under a very specific set of conditions that have nothing to do with the current case.

I hate slimy, irresponsible people who won't man up and take responsibility for their actions. And I hate that our legal system enables them.

So much fault here. Dad left weapon unsecured. Didn't teach his kid how to handle a gun. Didn't teach his kid how clear a weapon before handling it. Didn't teach his kid not to snoop in dad's things.

Dad is the one at fault here period.

I just ran across the below video that purports to show why P320s are unsafe and will fire without being “commanded.” The narration and demonstrations start with several facts: the striker lug to sear interface is short; the safety lever needs to move only a short distance to move the striker safety lock out of the way of the striker so that the striker can fire a cartridge; and because of those two facts, the trigger does not have to be pulled very far to cause a discharge. He then proceeds to demonstrate how the trigger can be pulled unintentionally if something gets on the trigger such as part of a defective holster. Okay, so far all true.

His discussion then turns bizarre because he cites all those things as proof that the P320 is poorly designed and unsafe. Yes: Because if the trigger is pulled by some mechanism other than the shooter’s deliberate action the gun will fire, it’s something that SIG needs to correct.

He does claim that if the trigger had a so-called “safety” tab à la Glock that that would solve the supposed problem, and that again may be true of some unintentional discharges, but certainly not all—as has been demonstrated countless times by Glock owners.

With arguments like his it’s easy to see how there could be any number of “uncommanded” discharges with the P320 and it will be interesting to see how they fare in the numerous lawsuits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK66ua7-Bm0