I taught NRA courses for 25 years and strongly believe in gun safety (obviously). Here's the problem with the government running it:

Government requires gun safety "training" and sets the standards for successfully passing it. Involves safety and reasonable proficiency, fine.

Starts reasonable, then hijacked by anti-gun crowd. What could be unreasonable about requiring a one-inch five shot group at 50 yards with your carry gun to show "proficiency"?

Reminds me of Massachusetts in the late Sixties. Moved there and had several handguns. Under state law, I needed a permit from the local police chief to transport it to the range (and anywhere else). He interviewed me and wasn't going to give me one. At end of interview, I mentioned I had been in the US Air Force for four years. THEN, he asked why I hadn't mentioned that earlier and issued the permit.

Okay, I agree....

But here is what I know for a fact... I grew up in the country with guns... knew all I needed to know about firearms and shooting.. then at age 40 I decided to apply for a concealed handgun permit here in S.C. the evil state government requires 8 hours of training for this and I took the NRA class. I learned more in that 8 hours than I had in the previous 40 years.... then a few years later I was pontificating on the internet and someone replied to something I said.... with the advice that if one is going to carry a gun then they should get as much training as they can afford and keep that training up... In the last 8 years or so I've paid for something like 180 hours of training between the Sig Academy and Front Sight.
Education is not a bad thing...

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
And I'm sorry Para but I can't quite wrap my head around how me believing everyone should be trained in proper firearm handling makes me a lefty...

You: "... one way to reduce these accidental discharges is mandatory firearms training." Note emphasis added.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I learned more in that 8 hours than I had in the previous 40 years....

You, I don't doubt that's true.

I want you to make an effort to stop making threads about yourself. You come in here, make statements you should know will rile up members and then it's off to the races.

I've told you before and I'll tell you again- THINK before you post. Don't just say yeah, OK, I'll do that; ACTUALLY do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
Okay, I agree....

But here is what I know for a fact... I grew up in the country with guns... knew all I needed to know about firearms and shooting.. then at age 40 I decided to apply for a concealed handgun permit here in S.C. the evil state government requires 8 hours of training for this and I took the NRA class. I learned more in that 8 hours than I had in the previous 40 years.... then a few years later I was pontificating on the internet and someone replied to something I said.... with the advice that if one is going to carry a gun then they should get as much training as they can afford and keep that training up... In the last 8 years or so I've paid for something like 180 hours of training between the Sig Academy and Front Sight.
Education is not a bad thing...

What were the top three things you learned in that first 8 hour class?

I took my NV CCW class at The Gun Store, instructor was a Metro cop. I'd had multiple state CCWs for decades by then, but NV had just stopped accepting AZ permits and I got a free, walk-on spot.

One of my takeaways was when the instructor passed around some crime scene photos, taken at justified home invasion shootings. Geezus, I don't care how justified it might be, I don't want to go through that or have my house looking like that. Not that I wouldn't shoot when necessary, but it was such a disgusting mess.

Another was when he said, "Hey, I'm gonna remove some guns from concealment and pass them around for you all to check out." This man was wearing a pair of slacks and a golf shirt, not printing and he produced 10 (TEN!) handguns from concealment. It was like Leslie Nielsen pulling the eggs out of the woman's mouth in Airplane!

Anyway, nothing really to do with safety, but interesting stuff in a class I thought was gonna be a snoozer.

quote:

What were the top three things you learned in that first 8 hour class?

Para has asked/told me to shut up and so I will....

quote:

Para has asked/told me to shut up and so I will....

Yet here you are talking again. The smart thing to do would have been to actually shut up, as in not reply at all. Your impressive ego though obviously wouldn't allow that and there you go making a comment that offers nothing to the forum.

Mandatory training? King George must have been thinking "why didn't I do that as a scheme to disarm those damn colonists before they got so bent out of shape about a little taxation".

Training is good but not mandatory for a free country and thus "shall not be infringed". Obviously many don't like that but too fucking bad. Starting a new free republic after risking it all and enduring unfathomable personal sacrifices in a very brutal and long devastating war has that effect on those setting up the new government who were directly a part of the war.

If the government really wanted quality firarm training there are plenty of ways to do it that are not mandatory but they don't,
not by a longshot

Just for starts how about a $300 rebate with the purchase of ones first firearm paid out after completion of a "training class". I am sure many here can come up with dozens of such examples to encourage people to seek out training on their own.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: grumpy1,

For what it’s worth during my mandatory CCW training I learned nothing about safety, gun handling or general etiquette that I did not already know. It was a good course for discussing or highlighting specific state law/regulations/nuances.

All that said there were folks in my class that ran the gamut from “Should be teaching the class” to “Good info I learned stuff” to “Holy hell this dude is downright scary and I HOPE he takes some of this to heart”.

What I do believe should be mandatory is punishment for illegal or irresponsible behavior that causes harm. I do think one should have to secure their firearms based on their circumstances. Live alone/with another responsible adult then securing your home is the responsible thing to do. Lock your doors etc. Have kids, other adults, parties etc. the I believe those circumstances warrant a further internal layer of security (lock box, safe, quick access whatever, secured room whatever.).

I, personally, have always secured my firearms when I was not on the premises and once I had children moved to securing them when I was on premises as well. But like I said your personal circumstances dictate your security layers.

Mandatory training is far to slippery of a slope for ownership. Might as well expand that to chainsaws or knives or lawn darts as well. Mandatory training for carrying of a weapon in public I can be swayed with as much like with a vehicle harm to others/innocents goes up significantly with irresponsible or ignorant use.

Personally what I want, although, not specifically pertinent to this situation is an ability to do a voluntary background check via an app that provides nothing more then yep or nope for sale to a person. Make it like 5 buck or so to use, make it provide only the most basic Green or red info and make it voluntary. That way you have a tool to use to CYA with a FTF sale but are not forced to use it for those you know or decide are no threat (family, person with valid CCL etc.).

I also feel that the vast majority of us would actually be on board for certain actually useful rules or regulations…………If we hadn’t been CONSTANTLY bitten in the ass with it OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Fool me once and all that.

I remember taking the NRA handgun safety course when I was a teenager. My dad took me and I went because my mom finally relented and let me get a 38 if I took this course. I didn’t learn anything new. These courses are beyond basic. I know the 8 hour CCW course is different but I’ve attended a few basic training courses and am always amazed at how unbelievably basic (obviously) the curriculum is. If you learned that much you really were starting from deep in a hole. Basic courses shouldn’t be teaching you a lot if you have been shooting for 40 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:

quote:

What were the top three things you learned in that first 8 hour class?

Para has asked/told me to shut up and so I will....

No, I asked you to think before you post, yet you're twisting my words in order to avoid a question. It's right here on this very page.

The owner of the handgun violated Florida Statutes by making the weapon accessible to minors. I am curious to see if they were charged and if so, how the case was resolved.

Also, if the weapon was TPD issued, it was not purchased through Shoot Straight. There are two Sig LE distributors in Florida-Dana Safety, which has had the contract for several years, and B&H, which just became a dealer this year.

We had an interesting and what I believe is a parallel conversation around the Christmas dinner table yesterday. Our society has become one that needs to create some boogeyman to blame for everything. Kids can’t think critically, it’s the school curriculum. Kid accidentally shoots a kid, blame the gun/training. To me the responsibility to teach my kids gun safety, critical thinking, and to make sure my kids learned what they needed from school to be successful in life was laid on my shoulders the minute I became a father. That’s what a responsible parent does! I didn’t rely on a school’s curriculum or the government to teach my kids gun safety. I didn’t send feral kids to a school and ask their teachers to parent my kids. I didn’t get mad at the teachers because my kids received poor grades. I didn’t let my kids make excuses like, “my teacher didn’t teach that”. My kids were taught it was their job to learn the information not the teachers job to teach it. Life comes down to personal responsibility. The fact we have a member in our community even suggesting mandatory firearms training is mind boggling. Nobody is saying training isn’t good, but the responsibility to get it lies squarely on my shoulder as a responsible gun owner.

I have an adult son who has been shooting since age 7 and hunting since age 12. He didn’t learn anything new in his hunter safety course or his mandatory 8 hours of training for his CCW. His comment to me was that I had already taught him all that stuff. When he received his CCW permit, I enrolled him into an intensive defensive training course which I took along with him. He had seen me go off to classes many times before as I desire to be skilled and proficient shooter. After 2 days, 1000 rounds, and probably 1500 presentations from a holster he was left with a firm foundation to build upon. I really don’t care what other people choose to do, I do what I believe is expected of me in my job as a parent.

We all know the gun didn’t just go off. We also can probably conclude the parents of the kid who pulled the trigger probably don’t have enough money to go after. It is a tragic situation for all involved but the liability lies in the parent who didn’t secure the gun and the kid that pulled the trigger. The ambulance chasing attorney hoping to extort money from Sig should face consequences for pushing this type of nonsense.

^^^^^ Thank you dking271. Well said.