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fugitive from reality |
Do you agree or disagree Jupiter?
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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Down the Rabbit Hole |
I'm already on record, SgtGold.
Your turn.  Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| fugitive from reality |
So am I.
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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| Down the Rabbit Hole |
Fixed it for ya.  Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| fugitive from reality |
You said "I'm already on record, SgtGold". I responded with "so am I". There was no need to edit my response.
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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| Down the Rabbit Hole |
Sorry...I must have missed your post where you agreed or disagreed with the comments made by Kaya in the video from TFBTV, SgtGold. Anyway...I'm going to move on from our back and forth before Para comes in and clobbers both of us for wasting perfectly good server space with this nonsense. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
Since I don’t have any pistols cut for a dot, my options are right there in front of me. I have shot at the range one guys gun with a dot. Really liked his Holosun 507[?] on his CZ. It was right there the instant I brought it up. I’ve “played” with demo ‘guns’ in the store that had various Vortex dots on them…never could find the damn dot and I searched everywhere for it. Until I get to the point that I *can’t* shoot my iron sights, I’m just going to keep using what I have. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Freethinker |
Do I agree that optical sights (“red dots”) can have problems? Of course. Do I agree that some people become so emotionally invested in certain things, including red dot sights, that they become highly defensive about any criticism of them? That should be obvious as well and applies to everything from guns to Presidents. And those sorts of blind loyalties do no one any good, and that applies to the true believers as well as the things (or people) being worshiped. That does not mean, however, that when all things are considered we cannot choose something because it’s not perfect. The video in question makes that clear, but also tries to also make clear that potential problems should be recognized, acknowledged, anticipated, and solutions planned for. (But as usual, a serious discussion about a question of interest to actual gun owners and shooters has degenerated into absurdity.  )► 6.0/94.0 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| fugitive from reality |
Since this thread has gone on for so long I'll repost what I said back on page 13. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I'm faster with the first shot at sub 10 yard distances with irons. At 5 yards or less I don't even need sights to get consistent COM hits at speed. Once I break the first shot I'm faster and slightly more accurate with the RDS. As to shooters who are being raised and trained on handguns with no back up sights, this strikes me as a very bad move. If it's a gamer gun that's only going to see range time, who cares? As a self defense tool you have to be crazy to trust your life to a battery powered sight as your only aiming device.
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
I agree 100%. While I'm a big proponent of optics, I don't think that using an optic only is a good option for anything but a range toy or low stakes competition gun. Even with rifle red dots, which are more robust and mature tech than handgun red dots, I still want backup iron sights. Because shit happens. Luckily, most newer handgun optic options seem to be including rear sights in the optic body, to help facilitate having backup irons more easily. (Since you don't have to worry about stuff like relocating rear sight dovetails too.)
Not necessarily. There's a new generation of rear sight dovetail optic mounts being released. While they're still not quite as good as a dedicated optic cut, they're better than earlier dovetail optic mount options. Like these, for example: https://angrybeararms.com/prod...tegory/optic-mounts/   | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
What makes them a better dovetail option? I don’t mean that to sound like an asshole question/comment I really am curious about dovetail mounts but know basically nothing about them. Take Care, Shoot Safe, Chris | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
These newer style are smaller and shorter. They're thin/short enough to use with a backup front sight, provided the optic has an integral rear. The older style of dovetail mounts were thick, crude, and clunky. Because of their thickness, the optic sits quite high on/over the slide.   | |||
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| E tan e epi tas |
Thank you sir. Take Care, Shoot Safe, Chris | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
Thanks for that. I didn’t know they existed. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Shoulda Coulda Oughta Woulda |
I concur. | |||
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Diablo Blanco |
I find this thread interesting in how it aged. I have two pistols in my carry rotation that have MRDS optics on them. My grip is more fundamentally sound, my presentations are more repeatable, and I practice with iron sights about 40 percent of my range time. I’m more accurate and faster with both than I was before, but have a noticeable increase in performance when using n optic in speed and accuracy at any distance. My shooting buddy (newer shooter) started with MRDS pistols and while he tries to shoot irons pretty often he sucks at them. A lot of that has to do with the firearms he’s shooting, but the two I see most often are carry guns. One has a noticeable flinch, mostly due to some reliability issues that have been mostly worked out. The other, I’m not sure he has his eyes opened it is so bad. Put his FN 509 with its gritty trigger and Holosun RDS and he looks like a different shooter. As for having a backup set of iron, with a fundamentally sound grip you can use the optic window, the rear plate on the slide, or the channel where the hammer falls to frame your shots easily out to 25 yards. It’s pretty simple and one of the things I do when I practice simulating a dot failure when training. _________________________ "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last” - Winston Churchil | |||
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| Member |
I haven't heard anyone mention this before. What a great training idea. Thanks. | |||
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| Member |
I’m with you on this one. I am 58 and still prefer iron sites. My vision is fine but I can see the day where I need something more. Hopefully it’s just glasses. In a true defensive shooting scenario, I’m unsure optics would help. I also say this with having zero experience with an optic. | |||
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Member |
My two carry pistols are the P365 and P365 XL. The XL has supressor height sights and a red dot. The range where I practice has steel plate racks at 10 yards. One is horizontal with 8" plates while a second is vertical with 6" plates. With the P365 and standard sights I can clean the 8" rack if I take my time, but struggle with the 6" rack. With the XL and red dot I can clean the 6" rack. In general I am more confident with my shot placement using the red dot. With the supressor sights on the XL the red dot aligns with the white dot on the front sight. So if on presentation I see the iron sights I also see the dot. My nightstand pistol also has a red dot since it may be called upon in the dark. "The world is too dangerous to live in-not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen." (Albert Einstein) | |||
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Member |
I discovered that iron sights on a 2.5 inch L-frame revolver are just fine for me. This, after buying and using red dots on H&K, S&W, and Sig. I tested the custom P320 I have recently, sans red dot, only Ameriglo high perf irons, and sure enough, they work fine. I think for me the point-ability of a given firearm (think Glock angle vs Sig angle) make a big difference in basic torso hits at up to 25 yards. If I want to tear a single hole in the target, give me the H&K VP9 Match with Holosun SCS. If I want to carry something simple, I am again choosing iron sights. ------- Trying to simplify my life... | |||
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