quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^ Regardless, BOTH would need to be in a failed condition at the same time in order for there to be a discharge without the Trigger being depressed.

Yep. That's what I meant. And that's why I inspect my stuff every time I have it apart. It's a simple thing to manually depress the striker safety lock and makes sure it springs back, and push forward on the striker to make sure it's captured.

And in any post “it just went off” investigation it would be any easy smoking gun discovery. Springs don’t “unbreak”.

The trigger is being pulled until someone can actually prove/recreate/discover otherwise. It’s the simple answer and probably the correct one.

The FBI report already proved the gun can fire in a holster. 9 times out of 50 and verified on a brand new unfired Sig M18.

pg 29 of the report.

Because of the inherent movement between the slide and frame, a third test of the striker
safety lock was conducted. Approximately 50 attempts were made to determine if the striker
would impact the primed case after manipulating the weapon while holstered. The weapon
was pressed together and pulled apart (at the slide and frame). Thereafter, pressure was
applied to the frame and the sear manually released from the primary notch. The intent of the
manipulation and pressure was to mimic what might occur to a holstered weapon during an
officer’s duties, such as running, jumping, climbing, fighting, pressing a weapon against a wall
or vehicle, or obtaining a master grip on the pistol prior to drawing, etc.

BRF staff observed the primed case fired on nine attempts with the primer indent measuring
between 0.019”-0.026” with an average of 0.023”.

Wasn’t that the “test” that the FBI cut a hole in the side of the slide and Sig told them that by not supporting the side of the spring the test was invalid and a new protocol was used in subsequent tests and then there were ZERO (0) discharges?

See Steve’s post on page 67 that is directly above your post. He gave the pertinent information and you made the very next post and either believe it to be invalid, untrue, or you didn’t read it.

With a brand new M18, the FBI replicated the issue.

"A brand-new unfired Sig Sauer M18 pistol33 was obtained from MSP to determine if the test could be repeated on another weapon. On the first attempt, the striker safety lock successfully prevented the striker from impacting the primed case.

However, on the second. attempt the primed case fired, indicating the striker safety lock failed to stop the striker’s forward movement. The primer indent measured 0.023”

The is no evidence or indication from the report the brand new M18 slide was cut.

From the report it appears only the SUBJECT weapon and spare slide was modified/milled.

PG 23
To gain a better understanding of the movement of the subject weapon and its componentsduring live-fire, test shots were taken utilizing a high-speed camera24
. As part of this testing, the
following two modifications were made to spare parts. First, the rear slide cap was trimmed so
that movement of the sear and striker could be observed. Second, a spare slide was milled to
view movement of the striker safety lock and spring.

At this point, if Sig said so, I'd take that with a grain of salt.
It will be interesting to see if the FBI produces another report, as Sig requested. My spider sense thinks that's not going to happen.

Imagine if Sig had agreed to take part in the FBI analysis?
Some confusion might have been avoided?

That too is Sig's fault.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
The FBI report already proved the gun can fire in a holster. 9 times out of 50 and verified on a brand new unfired Sig M18.

No it did not.

The FBI had to manually depress the sear to release the striker. In real life, nobody goes poking around the internal mechanisms of their loaded firearms with a stick.

Next, by poking the sear with a stick in an uncontrolled fashion, they moved the sear enough to move the trigger bar which rotates the captive safety lever which pushes the striker safety lock up out of the path of the striker and allows the striker to strike the primer.

Essentially, the FBI proved the MSP officer’s P320 required the trigger to be pulled in order to fire because short of poking the internal mechanisms with a stick, which nobody is claiming happened, the only other way to make all of those parts move is to pull the trigger.

You like apples?

Good catch, I didn't see the manual tripping of the sear in the third test.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Next, by poking the sear with a stick in an uncontrolled fashion, they moved the sear enough to move the trigger bar which rotates the captive safety lever which pushes the striker safety lock up out of the path of the striker and allows the striker to strike the primer.

This is the problem. The sear should be able to move without any sympathetic movement of the trigger or the FPS lever. On a P365 pressing the sear does not make anything else move. Check any other pistol design and tell me what you find.

Sig needs to decouple these so pushing the sear down with a stick does not cause the FPS lever to move up. The rear leg on the sear was designed in to the "voluntary upgrade" to help prevent inertial trigger movement. But it seems it introduced this coupling effect which I do not think should have been accepted.

Sig's point is the timing of the system is such that a sear slipping off the striker will catch the striker at the secondary notch and/or the FPS lever will not have risen far enough to disengage the FPS.

Cut off the rear left of the sear and install a trigger dingus and be done with it.

A few hours ago, I bought a P320 X5 SXG. It feels fantastic! My other Sig's have been hammer fired. I still have a P225.

I'll be reading through this thread soon. This particular P320 is large and heavy. It's designed to be a factory race gun. Therefore, carry issues don't matter for this pistol and it's intended use.

The heavy frame, light weight slide, light slide spring and good trigger will make a fantastic range toy.

There's lots of good information here.

Bold strategy, suing your own customers. SIG has really lost their way. I have multiple hammer fired and p365 models SIGs, somehow never ended up with a p320 model.

Sig Sauer sues Oregon police training academy for banning popular handgun


The maker of a popular handgun that was banned by the Oregon Department of Public Safety Standards and Training is suing the agency and seeking for DPSST's decision to be overturned.

DPSST Director Phil Castle wrote in a June 13 letter to Oregon police chiefs, sheriffs and agency executives that after reviewing a report from the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission, he decided to bar the Sig Sauer P320 and all of its variants from training courses and campus.

Sig Sauer filed a petition for judicial review in Marion County Circuit Court on Aug. 12, asking a judge to reverse the decision and award the company any economic damages determined at trial...

Good grief. The cherry picking of information without even reading is why it is stupid that Sig is suing but they have a point.

They are being picked apart by people posting incorrect information who at the same time they are told it was incorrect just double down on their absolute conviction they are right. Good catch? It was caught a dozen pages ago but Sig has to be completely at fault. Damn the facts. I have a 96 page report. Well no I didn’t really read it but.

This is a witch hunt. This has all the earmarks of a witch hunt. You guys would be tossing chicks in the river to see if they float back in the day.

Oh brother. Without proof and spoiler alert, there isn’t any, they haven’t made a SINGLE 320 just “go off”.

And yes I absolutely can read my posts and see that I’m repeating myself because we all should be doing this every time somebody comes on here and misrepresents the facts to suit their opinion. This thread actually had somebody propose a nationwide agency to “oversee” firearm safety based on the 320 episode. Are you kidding me? We are a forum of gun enthusiasts and we want a govt safety organization to oversee our safety? Are we insane? Especially since until any actual proof occurs, these guns had their triggers pulled and they fired. Yea, we should all be pushing back against this narrative (unless they can prove the narrative) even if you hate Sig and abhor the 320.

Don't have a dog in this fight, but it reminds me of the great MSG scare in the 60s.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
The FBI report already proved the gun can fire in a holster. 9 times out of 50 and verified on a brand new unfired Sig M18.

[SNIP]

For the THIRD FUCKING TIME...Just in case you missed it!

Army’s Sig P320 Derived Pistols Will Remain Unchanged After Concerning FBI Report
Jul 17, 2025 1:56 PM EDT

https://www.twz.com/land/army-...oncerning-fbi-report

The TWZ article is quite long and much of the info re: the FBI-BRF testing/report has been discussed ad nauseam already so I'm not quoting the complete article here, BUT the following seems to have not been widely reported, if at all:

quote:

In addition, Sig Sauer claims that it engaged with the FBI in relation to the August 2024 report and its findings, and that subsequent testing was conducted that contradicts the initial results.

“The test conducted by the FBI-BRF was made aware to Sig Sauer when it was submitted to the Michigan State Police,” Jason St. John, senior director of strategic products for the company’s Defense Strategies Group, told TWZ. “Sig Sauer expressed concerns with the FBI’s initial report about how some of the tests were conducted.”

“Specifically, Sig explained that forcing the sear downward with a punch was moving the trigger bar forward and, as a result, the trigger to the rear since the sear is in constant contact with the trigger bar,” he continued. “Sig expressed that this was not a proper representation of the striker slipping off of the sear’s primary notch from a parallel/grip-down drop. Sig also noted that the FBI’s concern of the striker safety spring movement on the striker assembly post after getting hit with a hammer was unwarranted due to the viewing window that was cut into the slide that sacrificed the sidewall support of the striker safety spring.”

“After the initial report was submitted, Sig Sauer and its engineers worked in cooperation with the FBI and Michigan State Police to design a fixture that all agreed would create a more controlled testing protocol for striker/sear slippage,” St. John added. “Using that fixture, the FBI forced the sear off of the primary notch 565 times with 19EA different striker assemblies with zero indents on the primer (no fires).”

TWZ has reached out to the FBI for more details about the results of this additional testing.

Sig’s St. John also told us that the company has no plans to take further actions regarding the P320 based on the initial BRF report on the MSP incident last year.

“Sig Sauer continues to have full faith in the P320,” he said. “Due to the FBI manually manipulating the P320 sear improperly, Sig Sauer refutes the initial results.”

Honestly, I haven't seen anything other than 'SIG declined to participate in the evaluation with the FBI' on this (Over AND Over AND Over Again!), perhaps because it doesn't support the agenda of the 'click whore' morons on YouTube, along with all the haters posting about it all over the internet! The fact is that the original FBI BRF Report was only released after it was obtained as a result of a FOIA Request, and ONLY that report has been promulgated by those participating in this witch hunt. Both the FBI AND the Michigan State Police are in possession of the report of the subsequent testing, but releasing it doesn't serve the interests of those pushing the current (popular?) narrative. That report was sufficient to convince the MSP to stick w/ the P320, which 'should' be telling to ANYONE with an open mind on this issue!

Something to think about - Perhaps the entire methodology of the initial testing was SO flawed that SIG 'declined to participate' because they simply did not want be associated with it and by extension validate it in any way. Judging by the way this has been promulgated, it was VERY likely a wise decision on their part!

quote:

Originally Posted by nhracecraft:

The fact is that the original FBI BRF Report was only released after it was obtained as a result of a FOIA Request, and ONLY that report has been promulgated by those participating in this witch hunt. Both the FBI AND the Michigan State Police are in possession of the report of the subsequent testing, but releasing it doesn't serve the interests of those pushing the current (popular?) narrative. That report was sufficient to convince the MSP to stick w/ the P320, which 'should' be telling to ANYONE with an open mind on this issue!

Steve495 mentioned back on page 67 that he has put in a FOIA request for the followup report. I'm hopeful that we get to see that.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

This thread actually had somebody propose a nationwide agency to “oversee” firearm safety based on the 320 episode. Are you kidding me? We are a forum of gun enthusiasts and we want a govt safety organization to oversee our safety? Are we insane?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that was nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Springs don’t “unbreak”.

It is going to be hard to unbreak a reputation, too; even with your best efforts.

^^ Just ask the Duke Lacrosse Team...

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
For the THIRD FUCKING TIME...Just in case you missed it!

Yea, I usually stop paying attention as soon as someone screams.

Sig has only themselves to blame for their reputation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VMrG4KtERI

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^ Just ask the Duke Lacrosse Team...

I don't understand this comment, b/c Duke Lacrosse has a good reputation.

^^ Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nhracecraft,

Duke Men's Lacrosse restored their reputation quickly. Are you implying Sig will be able to do the same?

From what I've seen, gun guys carry grudges for a very long time. Bill Ruger and S&W's British ownership are long gone, yet I still see gun enthusiasts denounce them as 2A traitors.