quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
If it is true, it sounds a lot like treason!

Treason, yes. And desertion. Leaving your assignment on foot or forcing your ship to leave through sabotage seems the same.

I sincerely hope this isn't true, but if it is, I hope the guilty parties are caught and the maximum penalty is thrown at them.



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No, probably not treason as defined by the US Constitution (as has been discussed many times before), but certainly:
18 U.S. Code Chapter 105 Part I - SABOTAGE
https://www.law.cornell.edu/us...8/part-I/chapter-105

One possible penalty:
18 U.S.C. § 2153
Destruction of war material, war premises, or war utilities

Imprisonment: up to 30 years
Fine: under Title 18
If death results: life imprisonment or death penalty may be imposed

Per AI: “This is one of the most serious sabotage provisions and applies when conduct is intended to interfere with U.S. or allied war or defense activities.”

Also destruction of military property under Article 108 of the UCMJ. Penalty as a court-martial may direct.

sigfreund, you're right and I think there may be several options here, depending on the circumstances, in addition to desertion and sabotage.

These are all capital crimes, punishable by death in times of war and peace under UCMJ:

81 (10 U.S.C. § 881) – Conspiracy
94 (10 U.S.C. § 894) – Mutiny or sedition
99 (10 U.S.C. § 899) – Misbehavior before the enemy (including cowardice)
103b (10 U.S.C. § 903b) – Aiding the enemy
110 (10 U.S.C. § 910) – Improper hazarding of vessel

These provisions of the UCMJ carry a death sentence if the crime is committed during times of war:

85 (10 U.S.C. § 885) – Desertion
95 (10 U.S.C. § 895) – Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout

Some of these might be a stretch, but I think it would depend on the circumstances and the route chosen by the prosecution.



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Starmer is the male kamala.

quote:

Originally posted by MRBTX:
Starmer is the male kamala.

I don't know, doesn't being a male require a certain level of testosterone and male genitalia?



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I think he makes sense when he speaks...unlike Kamala. I don't agree with what he says, but he makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
I think there may be several options here

Yes, I believe you have identified several other possibilities, and it is definitely that should be investigated and prosecuted to the extent of the law.

quote:

Originally posted by coyotedude:

quote:

Many of us prefer a cockroach over a mushroom cloud. The latter is what you may not appreciate enough, nor the NATO problem, nor the bigger picture others have described. All the complaining and moaning utterly pales in comparison.

I'm paying a Benjamin now to fill up my commuter. I don't like it but it's SMALL matter compared to the current situation. I think people who are willing to let Israel or the USA to get continuously attacked, murdered, and eventually Nuked, aren't all there, and that bothers me to think Americans have become that soft and ignorant.

You and I may not be feel the heat of rising costs, however there are a lot of others that struggle daily for the basics, and are are affected by what you characterize as a SMALL matter.

It's a small matter COMPARED to getting NUKED. Take your pick. Get a second job and survive best you can, INSTEAD of getting Nuked. If you think it's hard to make ends meet, then let just let Iran do whatever the hell it wants, and eventually you will wish you HAD taken that second job for a short while. I've done it, it wasn't fun or easy, but it worked. I'm not saying everyone can do it, but most can if push comes to shove. You must not care about how evil the Iran government really is, and it's a matter of time before they will reach out and touch us here the same way they do in other parts of the world where Americans are stationed or live.

"Do you think that if we ignored Iran, the threat of them becoming a nuclear power would go away? Do you believe that if we play nice, their present government will join us in a first-world utopia?"


With all due respect, where did I suggest ignoring or discounting the threat Iran clearly poses? I simply believe and implicitly stated the closure of Hormuz has consequences far greater than was anticipated, particularly since we're now apparently tossing the keys to reopen to others. And yeah, although the war is justified, it's seems pretty seat of the pants, much like the erratic tariff implementations.

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's a small matter COMPARED to getting NUKED. Take your pick. Get a second job and survive best you can, INSTEAD of getting Nuked.

Yeah, I just don't buy that this was a given, an inevitability, let alone an imminent one.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
It's a small matter COMPARED to getting NUKED. Take your pick. Get a second job and survive best you can, INSTEAD of getting Nuked.

Yeah, I just don't buy that this was a given, an inevitability, let alone an imminent one.

Sure, go visit Israel for a good long time. there is a whole lot of sand over there to stick your head in. Enough for you and the rest of the folks that see it like you do.
How about being a state sponsor of terror with a nuke arsenal in a critical part of the world. Can you buy that one?

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Europe will capitulate to Russia for oil now.

EU Leaders Utterly Bewildered at Energy Vulnerabilities Now Evident

They stopped their oil and gas exploration. They chose to chase ‘net zero’ academic pontifications. They closed their refining operations. They took apart their coal-fired electricity plants. They disassembled their nuclear power capabilities. Then, the absolute cherry on the proverbial cake, they voted to stop purchasing oil and gas from Russia.

The EU is now in the Find Out stage of their FAFO positioning.

Gasoline prices have skyrocketed. The last shipments of jet fuel have arrived. Major airline carriers are cancelling flights due to lack of fuel. Faster than the EU can organize meetings to discuss their position, EU destined LNG shipments have diverted to southeast Asia and India as the ASEAN nations bid higher purchase prices for the vessels literally on the water.

Folks, it’s quite an article written by EU Politico as they outline how each of the leaders from the nation states are now discussing how vulnerable they are to the changed oil/gas environment with the mid east conflict ongoing. The entire energy sector in Europe is now in crisis mode with leaders predicting it will get much worse within days, not weeks.

EU Politico – “Germany’s Friedrich Merz warns the economic fallout from the war in Iran is on track to rival that of the Covid pandemic or the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[…] With the war in Iran threatening to choke off energy flows for the foreseeable future, Europe is facing a supply shock that promises to cripple manufacturing, ground airlines, hike up the price of food, spike borrowing costs and send inflation spiraling back to crisis levels.

As the last tankers carrying fossil fuels from the Persian Gulf pull into European ports, the scale of what is about to hit seems to be dawning on the continent’s leaders.

The one element missing from the lengthy diatribe of EU leader quotes is any self-reflection; any admission their EU vulnerability was entirely driven by their own policies. No, that part of the equation is missing entirely.

Everything in their mindset is a discussion of external events happening to them. There is no reconsideration of their prior stupidity, and/or a responsive effort to reposition their vulnerability.

The EU is in a state of cognitive paralysis, and things are about to get much, much worse.

https://theconservativetreehou...evident/#more-282153

Good, they have earned everything they get. And no doubt will make even more stupid decisions moving forward. I am not just happy, but thrilled.

Now its time to pay the piper.

I was really hoping to hear from Trump that he was giving NATO its 1-Year Notice (per Article 13 of the NATO Treaty) and would have said FAFO & BYE !!!!

Amazingly my reaction to reading the article chellim1 posted above is exactly the same as my reaction to reading earlier today there's a problem with the Orion space toilet, no shit?.

Since the Senate has to ratify treaties, would the Senate not have to be involved in pulling out of NATO? If so, it ain't going to happen.

The Senate et al would squawk if the US withdrew completely from NATO. But Trump as CinC of the US military could order home all the troops and yet still maintain membership in the Atlantic Council (the political side of NATO).

This is what DeGaulle did in 1966, which forced NATO to move HQ from Paris to Brussels. DeGaulle cited political independence and national security as his reasons for the “finger”.

quote:

Originally posted by coyotedude:
With all due respect, where did I suggest ignoring or discounting the threat Iran clearly poses? I simply believe and implicitly stated the closure of Hormuz has consequences far greater than was anticipated, particularly since we're now apparently tossing the keys to reopen to others. And yeah, although the war is justified, it's seems pretty seat of the pants, much like the erratic tariff implementations.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you, coyotedude.

To answer your first question, it was my reading/interpretation of the tenor in your earlier posts that led me to respond as I did. I appreciate your response and your clarification of your position.

My feeling is that the President is trying to shovel a lot of horse manure that decades of previous Presidents/Congress have just allowed to build up, or even actively created(Cough...Obama, O'Biden... cough). I am speaking with regard to foreign policy, domestic policy and military policy. And he is trying to shovel it all out in a short period of time, knowing it is now or never, because it is very, very unlikely that any other conservative following him will have the strength and energy to do it.

Maybe it is haphazard, or maybe it is simply bold gambles to make the most of his limited time.



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Question. If we didn't pull out of NATO, but reduced $ funding significantly - would this also require Senate approval?

quote:

Originally posted by coyotedude:
"Do you think that if we ignored Iran, the threat of them becoming a nuclear power would go away? Do you believe that if we play nice, their present government will join us in a first-world utopia?"


With all due respect, where did I suggest ignoring or discounting the threat Iran clearly poses? I simply believe and implicitly stated the closure of Hormuz has consequences far greater than was anticipated, particularly since we're now apparently tossing the keys to reopen to others. And yeah, although the war is justified, it's seems pretty seat of the pants, much like the erratic tariff implementations.

Just my 2 cents.

It seems at least in hindsight that the Straight problem is secondary to the MUCH more serious threat. The history of warfare shows problems that pop up are largely not predictable nor preventable.

Iran’s highest publicly acknowledged uranium enrichment level to date is 60% U-235, which it began producing in 2021 and has continued at that level since. That is far above civilian power-reactor fuel levels and still below weapons-grade material, which is around 90% U-235.

Once a country has produced 60% enriched uranium, it has already done most of the work needed for weapons-grade material, which is why analysts treat it as a serious warning sign.

The concern is not just the percentage itself, but the reduced breakout time and the fact that 60% material can be further enriched relatively quickly.

The distance between Tehran and New York City is 9,978 Kilometers, and Iran already tested an ICBM with a 10,000 KM Range that impacted inside Syria with Russia's permission.

Does that information help you see how small the Straight problem is compared to the Elephant in your living room ?

Did you know that the Tariff situation is not really about the Tariff money itself, nor it's effects on domestic prices.

Maybe your analysis or judgment is incomplete, since you're not thinking about these MUCH bigger pictures, considering the above facts.