SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Sigforum members, have you put your faith in Jesus and repented? (And ongoing Christian faith-based discussion)
Main Page The Lounge Sigforum members, have you put your faith in Jesus and repented? (And ongoing Christian faith-based discussion)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I wish it was hyperbolic. Haha Unfortunately, when I have engaged in discussions and debates on the topic of the origins of the Bible, I almost always get outright refusals to answer where the it came from. It's an uncomfortable topic for protestants. They must contend that the early Church councils that decided what was inspired and what wasn't and what books and in what order were infallible. They would also have to agree that a central authoritative structure is necessary. They also get uncomfortable when you show how undeniably Catholic the councils were. And unfortunately, I do see outright lies that are meant to deceive from protestant pastors all the time. | |||
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On the topic of the Most Blessed Sacrament, my daughter made her First Communion yesterday. It certainly was a joyous day for our family! | |||
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Alleluia! I had a Spirit-filled weekend myself. Got to hear two different messages delivered by two different young men. One 24 years old, the other 26; both full of the Holy Ghost. Really incredible. | |||
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Not directly related-to or inspired-by any recent discussion... “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” -JESUS in Matthew 7:13-14 “He that believeth on him (the Son of God) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God.” -JESUS in John 3:18 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” -JOHN THE BAPTIST in John 3:36 “But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourors are few; pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.” -JESUS in Matthew 9:36-38 Compassion in the Concordance: #4697: To have compassion on, have pity on. Compassion in Merriam-Webster: Sympathetic consciousness of others’ distress together with a desire to alleviate it. Q: “Why would God let so many people go to Hell?” A: Because we as Christians fall far short of the example of compassion that Christ gave us. We have been sorry stewards of His truth. We have been largely uncredible witnesses to His truth. It is His will that none should perish (2 Peter 3:9), but it is the truth that the majority will. Not only because they have hard hearts, but because we as Christians are not labouring.This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM, | |||
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Well worth repeating. Thank you, KSGM. Politicians seem to have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around. — — — — — — — — — — — — God bless America. | |||
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We can further define the word compassion as it's used in the Bible by considering the Greek roots of the applications of the word "pity" and its variants in the New Testament... To be tenderhearted. To have mercy on. With a focus on an act of kindness that will help meet the need. The need of humanity in Jesus' time was His sacrifice and the mercy therein. It's still the need of humanity today, and our act of kindness to meet the need, as believers, is us witnessing and ministering unto humanity, that they might be saved by putting their faith and trust in Christ as their redeemer and repenting. | |||
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This is perhaps a thread drift so no need to respond. I just wanted to post a few personal comments. First, I appreciate this thread. I've been only following intermittently but its been insightful and valuable with good educational information as well as good personal perspectives. Second, I'm still at the beginning of learning. I bought my first bible last year. I've watched the Great Courses series on Understand The New Testament (any thoughts on it? I found it, especially as an uninitiated, informational). Reading the bible is very challenging and tough. I have difficulty understanding it. The parables and metaphors. The usage of some words are not how they might be used today. References to things unfamiliar. I could use some sort of supplementary study aid that could be used as an explanatory aid as I read chapters. Third, I'm reading about (superficially) christianity and denominations, focusing on catholic and presbyterian (family tradition). Catholicism seems to have merit however I find the leadership, some of the church's trends, and some of its transgressions disagreeable and unbecoming what I think Christ intended. I need to read and understand what Presbyterian's believe. But in reading about all these denominations, including western vs eastern, I'm just amazed at how much flexibility and interpretations is allowed. And one wonders how much is just personal preference vs based on the actual intent of Christ. Fourth, I can't imagine that the complexity that I perceive is how it should be. Faith is important. Works (as in live well and love thy neighbor, not as in adhere to jewish laws like circumcision and kosher foods) are important. I have some skepticism about the sacrament, not about the initial sacrament but how it is offered today. I saw the discussion above and it somewhat alarms me given my skepticisms. For example, I don't believe that all priests are good people. If so, then should I take sacrament from a priest who is a bad person? I guess no harm would come from it but it seems disingenuous. Anyway, again, I'm uneducated though christian by family history. I'm at the beginning of learning. I just wanted to express that I'm interested in this thread and find it enlightening. And to show the tip of some of the difficulties in learning more. I don't know enough to even express what questions I have. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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In reading what you wrote, the first thing that came to mind is, "this guy would LOVE Peter Kreeft." Check him out on YouTube or his books on Amazon. | |||
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Thanks! Will look him up. Any book in particular to recommend? "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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If considering a Presbyterian church, I suggest researching Calvinism. The Presbyterian denomination is seemingly disproportionately under the Calvinist influence, when compared to other Protestant denominations. I am of the opinion that the Catholic church and broader Protestantism have more in common than strict Calvinists do with really anyone. The short version is a Calvinist believes that God predestined certain people for salvation and the rest for condemnation. No amount of faith can save a condemned person (but they were never "meant" to be saved anyway). Like I said, do your own research. Just know that the Presbyterian denomination has a higher likelihood of this belief.This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM, | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
Konata, I went through a similar process as the Dutch Reformed church became atheist/and it was always rare. I spent a week hunting with a retired priest. He encouraged me to go to LCMS. I’ve been happy with them. TMK, they are the most scriptural of the Protestant denominations I have found. Before I knew of them, I was considering Orthodoxy, but couldn’t reconcile myself to certain aspects. | |||
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Thanks. I'll look into Calvinism (I don't know what it is). I'll look into LCMS as well although I'm not ready yet to pick a denomination or church. I'm not sure at what point I'll be ready to be honest. Not sure what I should know in order to pick semi-intelligently. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Thanks. If true, then I don't think Calvinism nor Presbyterian are for me. It doesn't seem consistent w/ what I perceive the bible reflects. I would like to understand the basis of that belief and supported by writings in the Old and/or New Testaments. I have much to learn. I'm not really seeking to be a Presbyterian per se; it's just what I believe our family has been for the past few generations. I don't really know what that means and what beliefs it entails. I'd like to study catholicism a bit more and hold that as a baseline. And then compare/contrast it with other denominations. All of this in the future. I'm not sure what steps I need to take moving forward. But my first step, right or wrong, is trying to better understand the bible. Read it, supplement with a study guide, watch educational programs (like series in the Great Courses). I've finished the Great Course on Understanding the New Testament. Will watch the Great Course on Understanding the Old Testament. And go from there. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Since Presbyterianism was brought up, I would suggest reading their confession of faith, the Westminster Confession. You can read about what the confession says about free will in section 9. The Reformed beliefs about predestination, free will, etc are often mischaracterized so I think it's best to go to the Confession and the Bible (places like John 6, Ephesians 1,2 and Colossians 2 , etc). WCF I'm not Presbyterian as I disagree with their views on Baptism and the Covenants in particular. | |||
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Dr. Scott Hahn would be another good one who you'd enjoy on this topic. He was a former Presbyterian Minister, who converted to Catholicism and has since become one of the prominent Catholic Theologians of our time. Absolutely fantastic conversion story that isn't just about feelings. Hahn uses logic and the early Church fathers to reconcile his faith. As to the Peter Kreeft books, some of them are very deep. A concise and short favorite of mine is, "Forty Reasons That I Am A Catholic." | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
Rome Sweet Home (Scott Hahn) is good book of his which outlines his conversion. ________________________________________________________ It is long past time for a Convention of States. The Founding Fathers gave us this tool to fix an out of control government and we need to use it. | |||
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To avoid someone reading these follow-up comments getting the wrong impression, I want to clarify that I didn't equate Presbyterian with Calvinism. Not all Presbyterians subscribe to Calvinist beliefs concerning free will and predestination. It is merely a denomination where you see it more than others. The Bible makes plenty of mention of predestination. It also makes plenty of mention of the "whosoever" Gospel. In any case, I trust God and I trust he'll illuminate the truth for me if I maintain a right relationship with Him and it's in accordance with His perfect will.This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM, | |||
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As I understand the Catholic position on predestination: God predestines the saved by grace, but no one is predestined to damnation; salvation is entirely God’s gift, yet man can freely reject it. Would you agree with that broad statement? | |||
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I tiptoe through the tulips (ironic because TULIP), when it comes to predestination. The fact of the matter is, God certainly knows who will be saved and who won't. He sees the end. But I don't think that means that he designed that outcome. The Calvinists preach God's ultimate sovereignty; He is all powerful (can't argue that); His will IS done; Everything that happens is by his design. Those who are predestined to salvation WILL choose him. Those who aren't won't/can't. In your statement, Cous, who are "the saved"? Those he knows will respond to his grace? CCC 600 and 2012 are good resources in evaluating the Catholic position. Interestingly, it almost seems like they don't "claim" the word predestination, as it's in quotes in paragraph 600. Seems a little weird to me. From 600: "...When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of 'predestination', he includes in it each person's free response to his grace:..." From 2012 (Rom8:28-30): "...For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren..." It is logical to me that God would predestine those he foreknew would respond to His grace. He'd predestine them to play their perfect role in His plan. But I don't think he "builds-in" salvation to anyone. It must be freely chosen, to reconcile the fact it was feely rejected in the garden. In any case, I am comfortable trusting God. It's not as if I'd cease to trust him if I was to find out he operated according to strict Calvinist belief. After all, Isaiah 55:9... "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM, | |||
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Calvinists don't believe salvation is built in to anyone. They believe salvation is by grace through faith. They also believe/teach the doctrine of original sin and federal headship as outlined in Romans 5 and Genesis 3. I wouldn't say that salvation was rejected in the garden, I would say that Adam chose to break God's law (sin) which each generation then inherited from Adam (Gen 5) and when one is born from above (John 3) he is a new creation in Christ and is saved from the wages of sin which is death (Gen 3, Romans 6). | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Sigforum members, have you put your faith in Jesus and repented? (And ongoing Christian faith-based discussion)
Main Page The Lounge Sigforum members, have you put your faith in Jesus and repented? (And ongoing Christian faith-based discussion)© SIGforum 2026