quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
My comments about my mother relate directly to the OP. The OP was created because I was raised Catholic, and didn't understand what the Baptist church was telling me about salvation. Now that I better understand, the Baptist attitude is something I embrace. Had I stayed in the Catholic faith, I may have better understood through their doctrine. The Baptist doctrine seems more approachable to me; less nuanced.

It was a "bummer" for me to hear her answer, because it implies that she is not currently saved. If you "truly believe", the answer to the question posed is "yes". John 3:16-18 says as much.

I was raised a Catholic as part of my family. As a matter of fact, if I was sharing my faith with a non-believer, I can confidently say I am a Catholic because "you're born a Catholic, you'll die a Catholic."

I have also come to a full assurance that when I die, I'm going to heaven, not because of anything that I have done but because I believe Jesus died for my sins and I am saved by grace through faith.

So I understand what you're going through about your mother or anyone else that you care about. I'm going to share my position and I'll be the first to say I don't know if my position is right but it stands to reason with what I've come to know and it does involve even the discussions in this thread that seems tangential to your original purpose.

First, we start with the quote "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." It's attributed to St. Augustine.

It captures the idea that there are essentials in Christianity that without it or if you hold to a belief contrary to it, then you are not a Christian. For example, it is essential to believe that Jesus did rose from the grave. Without that belief, you are not really a Christian and are not saved.

The non-essential portion captures the idea that reflects the different kinds of Christians there are. There are some Christians who don't believe in using instruments to worship, others believe in using only the King James Version, others believe you have to speak in tongues, and others believe in once saved always saved. These are controversial divisions and those who for or against these issues can be obstinately adamant about their positions. But, as you get to personally know these different people, you can also conclude that these people with their differing opinions are also Christians and are going to heaven.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him. We also know He is the narrow door.

But when we come to Jesus, it does seem He accepts us even when we say, "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to use only the King James Version." or "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to speak in tongues." They may acknowledge that Jesus and Jesus alone is who saves them and they don't realize their practice says otherwise. But that's because they're imperfect people.

I would suggest that the group of imperfect people who are saved are those who say, "I am saved by Jesus but I am not sure if I am going to heaven." I know that sounds heretical because if you know, you know. But I remember the first time someone asked me that question after getting saved and I had to work out my reasoning on the spot. I remember Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also (John 14:2-3)" And that was how I was able to answer in the positive.

Since you're speaking with your mother on these issues, you might share with her that passage along with many other passages about the surety of salvation in Christ.

You might say, "But what about the statues of Mary, the sacraments, etc." All I know is that Jesus accepted the thief on the cross with all his ignorance. Catholics may say, "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to do Catholic things." I think the important thing is to be sure they do have a personal relationship with Jesus and Jesus can deal with the stuff of their life including their religion. Even the father wanting a miracle confessed, "Lord, I believe, help my unbelief (Mark 9:24)."

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Does your church have any of the following:
Crucifix
Cross
Venerable paintings
Statues
Xmas trees
Steeple
Baal staff

Does your church celebrate any of the following:
Spring rites
May Day
Valentine’s Day
Love month
Mardi Gras
Lent
Ash Wednesday
Palm Sunday
Good Friday
Easter
Saints day
Halloween
Christmas

I'm going to allow you to take another shot at that. Be informed that you don't understand what you're asking, and even though I told you, you also don't understand who your asking it of.

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to take another shot at. I’m not accusing you of anything, I’m asking yes or no questions.

Alright then.
Cross - Yes, the same way any synagogue will have the star of David, or mosque will have the Star and Crescent.
Xmas trees - in the season of advent
Steeple Yes
Easter - Yes, it's the Resurrection
Halloween - They do a trunk or treat in the afternoon.
Christmas - Yes, it's Advent.

-----------
Crucifix - No, I'm not Catholic
Venerable paintings - No, I'm not Catholic
Statues - No, I'm not Catholic
Baal staff - No, I'm not Catholic

Does your church celebrate any of the following:
Spring rites- No, I'm not Catholic
May Day - No, I'm not Catholic
Valentine’s Day- No, I'm not Catholic
Love month- No, I'm not Catholic
Mardi Gras- No, I'm not Catholic
Lent - No, I'm not Catholic
Ash Wednesday- No, I'm not Catholic
Palm Sunday- No, I'm not Catholic
Good Friday- No, I'm not Catholic
Saints day- No, I'm not Catholic


as you can see most of your questions show your ignorance of what I've already told you. Your decision to virtually attend an independent church, and not take communion amongst your fellow Christians is all I really need to know about your theology.

quote:

But when we come to Jesus, it does seem He accepts us even when we say, "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to use only the King James Version." or "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to speak in tongues." They may acknowledge that Jesus and Jesus alone is who saves them and they don't realize their practice says otherwise. But that's because they're imperfect people...."But what about the statues of Mary, the sacraments, etc." All I know is that Jesus accepted the thief on the cross with all his ignorance. Catholics may say, "I am saved by Jesus but I also have to do Catholic things."

Well said, Rey. Thank you to all, for the thoughtful replies.

I am still thinking on your reply, Reloader. The scripture says salvation is assured if we believe in the truth of Christ. We can therefore be sure of it, if we believe the truth. Uncertainty implies potential unbelief. Though, like you said, the belief can be there, but veiled by different doctrine. So, when interrogated on the spot, someone may find fault in their response, like Rey suggested.

I am also still curious about everyone's opinions on the other two notions I mentioned.