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| The Unknown Stuntman  |
Nobody is arguing that, fritz. This has nothing to do with fast cars or thieves, that's a red herring and I'm not going to respond to it. It comes down to this; freedom means being free, all the time, even if that means free to do things we don't like, don't agree with, don't condone, etc. Even if we think it's dip shit behavior.  | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
I know, a fine $40 Opus X and a dram or two of Lagavulin 16 is a terrible waste of a fine evening.  | |||
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Spread the Disease |
FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT BOTHER TO READ THE OP ARTICLE: This is about raising the age to PURCHASE tobacco products to 21. I referred to it as the "smoking age" because that is generally how this is referred to in the media and popular conversation.
Your logic is inconsistent. Somebody putting tobacco into their body only affects them directly. Speeding can easily affect others. I am completely for legalization of all drugs. There are already laws to address the crimes that abusers tend to commit. The law should be to protect other free folk from your actions. If you want to kill yourself, have at it. As far as the enforcement question, I don't see this being enforced any differently that the current age limit (typically 18) that many states have for the purchase of tobacco products. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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| Member |
So how about we suggest a minimum age of 91 for purchasing, possessing, and/or using ALCOHOL???? Where do you draw the line with taking away peoples liberties????? Your statement is ridiculous. My dad died at 56 years old and the main contributor to his death was being an alcoholic (got type II diabetes, got an infection from a cut, body couldn't fight it off from liver degradation and diabetes, spread throughout his blood stream and shut down all of his organs). But I'm not one to add more legislation. | |||
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| Member |
It is, so is drinking, so is eating fast food, so are many other things. This is America and what makes America great (being able to do the things you want to do AND being able to afford to do what you want to do), get over it, or GTFO. There is a HUGE difference between what someone does to themselves and doing an activity that negatively effects another innocent person. IE drunk driving, stealing your neighbors Ferrari. | |||
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| Member |
^^^^^^^^^^ They made Louisiana raise the drinking age to 21 by threatening to hold back Federal Highway money. The government will find a way. Holding back funds is their usual MO. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Yep. I remember. Same in Texas. We celebrated at a bar the night we became illegal.  "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Member |
Wouldn't be too tough for me to deal with. I have only one or two drinks per month, generally at social events -- where non-drinkers often receive that look. I never drank much more than that even in college. There were huge physical demands of being on a high-level ski team. Our coaches showed us athletes via physical output charts how alcohol use decreased our own performance. They could pretty much determine if we had one, two, or more drinks in a given week -- without blood tests. They charted us on all sorts of stuff. It was easier to determine with quantitative work, such as pushing iron and running during dry-land training in the fall. But they still knew in the middle of winter, when we were running gates. Long distance bicycling and mountain climbing later in life further showed that alcohol inhibited my physical performance. So yeah, I could deal with no alcohol. Not a big deal. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
But that would be YOUR choice. You know... they tried it your way in the 1920s. It was called prohibition. It didn't stop anyone from drinking but it all became criminal and a lot of people died due to the violence associated with criminal activity. Reminds me of this: “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It's not good at much else.” ― Tom Clancy "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Spread the Disease |
Lots of "I" in there. This isn't just about you. The debate is a bit broader than that. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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| Member |
No problem. That's true. "I" have no issues with restricting smoking. It's a foul habit. That's my view and it won't change. | |||
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Member |
FIFY Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Meanwhile, from one of the few sane members of Congress...  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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