quote:

Originally posted by showpro:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
This could happen but it would be the end of the GOP.

No, it can't just happen. If it happens, it will be because no one is the clear winner. And that's appropriate. So why should it be the end of the GOP, in that case?

They, the RNC, have changed the rules recently in order to make it harder for an outsider candidate (Trump or Cruz in this case) to meet the (new) standard, thus they have engineered it to make a brokered convention easier.

Now, sure, if a candidate can meet the new standard then of course there will be no brokered convention, but if they don't it could be by design or a reflection of their popularity (or the lack thereof).

So far Trump seems to be winning by large enough margins to avoid it altogether.

So far.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
They, the RNC, have changed the rules recently in order to make it harder for an outsider candidate (Trump or Cruz in this case) to meet the (new) standard, thus they have engineered it to make a brokered convention easier.

Got a link? I've read what I can find but all I can see is the normal back and forth in the rules committee meetings.

quote:

Originally posted by showpro:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
They, the RNC, have changed the rules recently in order to make it harder for an outsider candidate (Trump or Cruz in this case) to meet the (new) standard, thus they have engineered it to make a brokered convention easier.

Got a link? I've read what I can find but all I can see is the normal back and forth in the rules committee meetings.

I did, but it's been a couple of months. I'll see if I can dig it up later.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Trump is neither fish nor fowl, politically speaking, and that's one of the key reasons people want him.

We say amongst ourselves, in disgust, "Get rid of them all!", and the popularity of Trump is a form of this sentiment in action.

Exactly...

That is what the GOP establishment still doesn't get...

They STILL think this is about Trump...it's not.

It's about the people who are voting for Trump who are sick and tired of being screwed by the typical GOP politician who lies to get voted in...then does whatever the hell they want while disregarding the people who put them there!

So they attack the man...and do not see the cause.

Which is why I will be delighted if he gets in...so I can watch the GOP establishment implode on itself.

...and from the ruins...maybe, just maybe, a real conservative party will form/emerge that listens.

Agreed. The GOP just doesn't get it, Yet.

quote:

So far Trump seems to be winning by large enough margins to avoid it altogether.

Not really. Most of these states require reaching something like 50% or more to get all the delegates. I hope Rubio drops out after Tuesday, but everything I've heard points to him staying in with that single goal in mind. The math makes it a real possibility.

If we think things are ugly now wait and see what happens if this goes to a brokered convention. I wonder how many people saying we have to vote for the GOP nominee no matter what will jump ship if Trump doesn't get it? I'm not talking about members on here, but GOP voters in general. My guess is the moment Trump isn't the guy that goes out the window when he runs third party.

It depends on how bad the GOPe screws Trump. If he goes to the convention the clear leader but without enough votes to clinch a first round ballot I firmly believe the GOPe will broker the convention. Only they won't give it to the guy in second (Cruz I believe) but rather to the guy in third (Rubio). To me this will be a clear violation of the will of the people. To me this says the GOPe could give a rats ass about the people. So quite frankly I will not give a rats ass about them. If Rubio is the candidate based on the peoples choice, so be it. If he is the candidate based on an underhanded deal...well it will be real hard for me to walk into that booth and not write Trumps name on the ballot.

I like mbinky's answer, but now add in a GOP ploy to bring in Romney as a dark horse.

Well, to a large extent we know what would happen right now. We don't have to wait to know that if he doesn't get the numbers going in he's not going to get it on the floor. It's basically get it on the first round or it's prison rules, so we know it would be a Rubio or Romney even on the 28th of February.

I may very well abandon the GOP for the rest of my days if even the faintest, legitimate, hint of monkey business occurs regarding the nomination, as there is almost zero conceivable scenario that is also fair and honest where a Rubio or someone else can wind up the nominee. The RNC does not represent me, nor mean anything to me, and if there is reason to believe they have manipulated the outcome such that it no longer reflects the will of the people then I will probably never forgive them, no matter what the outcome is.

^^^^
And that should infuriate EVERY American. We are told from childhood that we get to select our president, but then we find out that in reality the ruling elite choses them. Basically why would we have debates? Primaries? The elite should just tell us who the candidate will be the summer before the election and we can vote for them or their rival.

The only reason why the GOPe wants Rubio is because they know they can shove their hand up his ass and work him like a puppet. Can't do that with Trump or Cruz.

If 'ol Mitch were my senator and was responsible for some underhanded crap I would vote for his Democratic challenger just to put him out of a job.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

Not really. Most of these states require reaching something like 50% or more to get all the delegates.

Yeah, and you know why these rules were changed/put in place? It was because, in the past, the conservatives split the vote which would allow someone like McCain to take all the marbles. So, these were sensible rules designed to enable conservatives to win.

They were rules I advocated for, personally, by writing to the GOP leadership in past election cycles. I'm glad they're there. There's nothing wrong with making it hard for one person to walk away with everything if a large faction of the party is splitting up the vote among candidates. I hope they do their job this time.

quote:

Originally posted by showpro:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
This could happen but it would be the end of the GOP.

No, it can't just happen. If it happens, it will be because no one is the clear winner. And that's appropriate. So why should it be the end of the GOP, in that case?

Because voters feel disenfranchised. Too many are disgusted with DC politics. Being an old guy, I can say I have never seen the country this bad. A state of dystopia for those conservatives who feel they will never achieve the American dream. Trump represents the anti-establishment but unlike Bernie he is viewed as someone who really cares about America. The GOP is already seen as the party who doesn't give a fuck about the working man. They only answer to the billionaires. Guns, abortion, and gays are just a distraction to keep the rest of us arguing. In the back rooms they are all one party.

I'm not a Trump fan, but if Trump gets in and the RNC big wigs see fit to oust him in some underhanded deal it will be the death of the GOP.

-Tom

Just because someone dosen't meet a magical number does not mean there is no clear leader. Let's say they go to the convention one two three, Trump, Cruz, Rubio. Trump leads Cruz by a good margin but does not hit the magic number; Cruz is next, and they are both miles ahead of Rubio. There is a clear leader in this scenario who should be chosen, but instead the nod is given to the third place loser. That is complete and utter disreguard for the will of the people. If supporters of the top two decided not to vote at all I wouldn't blame them a bit.

The establishment needs to have their collective heads examined if they think people will just blindly vote for whomever they tell us to.

IN many states the rules also require a candidate to reach a 20% threshold in order to get any delegates. In several of the Super Tuesday states, Trump is the only candidate above 20%. He could still win all the delegates in those states even if he doesn't hit 50%.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Just because someone dosen't meet a magical number does not mean there is no clear leader. Let's say they go to the convention one two three, Trump, Cruz, Rubio. Trump leads Cruz by a good margin but does not hit the magic number; Cruz is next, and they are both miles ahead of Rubio. There is a clear leader in this scenario who should be chosen, but instead the nod is given to the third place loser. That is complete and utter disreguard for the will of the people. If supporters of the top two decided not to vote at all I wouldn't blame them a bit.

The establishment needs to have their collective heads examined if they think people will just blindly vote for whomever they tell us to.

Actually, there isn't necessarily a clear leader in that case. Between three candidates, sure. But the question is if one of them drops out, who in that case has the majority vote among Republicans.

Until Trump is getting over 50% of the vote, he's not the clear leader.

Oh completly. With two guys vying for one spot there is no clear leader. Lets face it, I don't see Cruz or Rubio droping out, so it will be a three man race. I know one and two (Trump and Cruz) will be close, so I have no problem if the votes go to either one. But to give the nod to the third place guy, who most likely won't even be close? That will be a big "F You" to the American people.

quote:

Actually, there isn't necessarily a clear leader in that case. Between three candidates, sure. But the question is if one of them drops out, who in that case has the majority vote among Republicans.

Until Trump is getting over 50% of the vote, he's not the clear leader.

Agree. We are either in this to beat Hillary or we aren't. If he can't get the numbers to win going in then the people have spoken to a degree. That doesn't mean I'll agree with what happens or won't be upset, but we know they will replace him and skip Cruz in doing so. I'll be pissed, but if Trump runs third party or people stay home after the convention she wins.

I'll say it another way, if Trump wins the numbers according to the rules then we are expected to come out in November. If by those same rules he doesn't reach the required number and the GOP replaces him suddenly it's OK to stay home and let Hillary win? It looks like we all may have to hold our nose one way or the other, but the end goal is still to beat Hillary. The best thing for all of us would be for Rubio to drop out, but if he doesn't people should prepare themselves now because we know what could be coming.

Ugh...what a mess this could all turn out to be.

quote:

Either they're drunk on power and they're too stupid to figure it out

"Let them eat cake."