I've had several run-ins with the Capital Police, as I used to work there. They never asked for my ID, though easily could have, since I had technically violated a law or two. One time I had left a case of primers on the back seat of my car and had parked illegally. That was a lot of fun when my boss called and said there were some Cap. cops with dogs walking around my car.

I don't know how it is anymore, but when I worked there, if you looked and acted like you belonged, they totally left you alone. I had to deliver some stuff to Hastert's and Pelosi's offices once. I didn't have an appt, but I knew where the business entrance was and was wearing a coat and tie. They waved me right in. A month later I had to do it again on a Friday, when they weren't in session, no Members in town and I was dressed casually. I walked up to the same entrance.

"Whoa. Where you going? Do you have an appt? Who are you here to see?"

I still got in, but was treated differently.

I still like to believe that individual officers are the Good Guys. The "problems" we've seen have been caused by asshole politicians and inflamed by the leftist media. Yes there is still racism, and since police a people too there will be a few of them that do bias their interactions with some people on that basis (was that vague enough to avoid pissing somebody off?). Yes, I'm white, so maybe I don't see it the way some do. But at the end of the day I still respect cops. If one asks for my ID I'll show it to him, no problem.

Beside, between DL, carry permit, and all the FFL transactions I've done over the years, I figure I'm already in just about every database there is anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Yikes, nothing. I said none of those things. YOU did.

And I asked you where you draw the line.

You seemed quite worked up about this topic.

They pretty much have a bunch of information on you already, so showing ID when asked and keeping things calm and respectful isn’t going to add you to any more lists. But getting up in their grill about it and being combative will likely get you added to a new “list”, one that you probably don’t want to be on.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:


I find it disgusting, disgraceful, and just downright embarrassing to see the the US Capitol barricaded like that from the American people.

To keep the criminals inside.


As for ID, not complying they will claim you're obstructing and interfering with police business. What's to stop them from saying that about anything else they like?

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
They pretty much have a bunch of information on you already, so showing ID when asked and keeping things calm and respectful isn’t going to add you to any more lists. But getting up in their grill about it and being combative will likely get you added to a new “list”, one that you probably don’t want to be on.

You know what else would keep things calm and respectful? Cops not asking/demanding ID when they have no legal justification to do so. You talk about showing ID....and talk about “lists”. You can guarantee that average joe in this video walking down the street doing nothing wrong just got added to one by identifying himself. When they write the report, it wont say “we stopped Joe Smith for walking down the street doing nothing illegal”. It will say something like “responded to call of videotaping security infrastructure at the capitol and identified Joe Smith as the person doing the suspicious surveillance activity”.

Theres a million videos online of these interactions and the “first amendment auditors” are really an annoying bunch looking for attention, but they have exposed countless times of officers intimidating and lying to people over ID when they have no legal justification to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
A "sovereign" citizen has no need to present anyone with ID.

Yes, but most of us have not separated our natural, free human selves from the corporate shells created by the Federal Reserve, so we have to worry about such things.

Some states have laws requiring you to identify yourself. Others do not. None require you to carry "ze paapers" at all times, only when driving, or some other specified activities.



\

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Just identify yourself. It's not rocket science.

If you believe the request unlawful, then comply, and contest it later.

The officer is asking for identification. Not. your first born. Just how the fucking ID.

So where do you draw the line then? You're ok with being harassed for simply walking down a public street, so what else do you simply comply with for no good reason? A search of your person? Your car? Your home? Yikes.

Does this happen to you? Or is this just a theoretical problem?

I agree, I should not have to identify myself. But the only times a cop has ever asked me to do so was when I was suspected of violating a traffic law, always with good reason.

So, no representative of government has ever asked me to identify myself other than when she was justified in doing so. I do not expect this to happen in the future, either.

I've been pulled over for no other reason than "Looks like I entered your license plate wrong. Paperz plz."
I think this illustrates there is no situation in which you can be stopped where you don't have to show ID.
I was on a RR1000 and carrying legally. We had a nice chat but not until after I had to open up my history.
Sorry lady. Wrong fish.

Guy at the LGS says this is how to handle it.

I emailed Jones and he agreed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX-KJ1bW0mg

A friend of mine was awakened at 2am to the sound of a police chase that ended with the fleeing bad guy wrapping his car around the tree in my friends front yard and then fled on foot. My friend stepped out onto his front porch to see the cops clearing the car in the yard.

Cop approached my friend and asked if he was the homeowner. Friend said yes. Cop asked for ID and my friend assumed it was for the report. Cop took the ID and then proceeded to call it in to check for warrants and such. Ridiculous.

My work place had two buildings. I worked in building one and building two was not used often. Both had alarm systems but they were silent, and you did not have a way of monitoring one building from another.

I saw a cop drive into the property and as he was sitting in the parking lot I came out of building one and identified myself as the manager and asked if I could help him. He said the alarm was triggered in building two.

I escorted him to building two and used the entry code on the door to gain access. I then proceeded to the alarm control panel and disabled the alarm with the code. The panel indicated the trouble was with the door we just entered. I suspected the wind. He said we still needed to check the building so I produced the keys to the other rooms in the building and opened them so he could check. When all was said and done he asked for my ID and proceeded to check for warrants. Just fishing. Ass

quote:

Originally posted by thunderson:
A friend of mine was awakened at 2am to the sound of a police chase that ended with the fleeing bad guy wrapping his car around the tree in my friends front yard and then fled on foot. My friend stepped out onto his front porch to see the cops clearing the car in the yard.

Cop approached my friend and asked if he was the homeowner. Friend said yes. Cop asked for ID and my friend assumed it was for the report. Cop took the ID and then proceeded to call it in to check for warrants and such. Ridiculous.

My work place had two buildings. I worked in building one and building two was not used often. Both had alarm systems but they were silent, and you did not have a way of monitoring one building from another.

I saw a cop drive into the property and as he was sitting in the parking lot I came out of building one and identified myself as the manager and asked if I could help him. He said the alarm was triggered in building two.

I escorted him to building two and used the entry code on the door to gain access. I then proceeded to the alarm control panel and disabled the alarm with the code. The panel indicated the trouble was with the door we just entered. I suspected the wind. He said we still needed to check the building so I produced the keys to the other rooms in the building and opened them so he could check. When all was said and done he asked for my ID and proceeded to check for warrants. Just fishing. Ass

In both of these cases, the officer's intent in calling the name in was likely not to check for warrants, but to have dispatch add your friend's name into the CAD system for the report, as he was the owner of the property where the car crashed. In your case, it was to document who the contact person was at the business where he was responding to the alarm. We call in names all the time for all kinds of reasons...documentation is what we do. If we don't do it and something happens later, it's our ass. So we document everything. Yes, there's a good chance the CAD system automatically checked it for warrants when dispatch entered it, but the officer didn't call it in because he was "fishing" or an "ass".

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by thunderson:
A friend of mine was awakened at 2am to the sound of a police chase that ended with the fleeing bad guy wrapping his car around the tree in my friends front yard and then fled on foot. My friend stepped out onto his front porch to see the cops clearing the car in the yard.

Cop approached my friend and asked if he was the homeowner. Friend said yes. Cop asked for ID and my friend assumed it was for the report. Cop took the ID and then proceeded to call it in to check for warrants and such. Ridiculous.

My work place had two buildings. I worked in building one and building two was not used often. Both had alarm systems but they were silent, and you did not have a way of monitoring one building from another.

I saw a cop drive into the property and as he was sitting in the parking lot I came out of building one and identified myself as the manager and asked if I could help him. He said the alarm was triggered in building two.

I escorted him to building two and used the entry code on the door to gain access. I then proceeded to the alarm control panel and disabled the alarm with the code. The panel indicated the trouble was with the door we just entered. I suspected the wind. He said we still needed to check the building so I produced the keys to the other rooms in the building and opened them so he could check. When all was said and done he asked for my ID and proceeded to check for warrants. Just fishing. Ass

In both of these cases, the officer's intent in calling the name in was likely not to check for warrants, but to have dispatch add your friend's name into the CAD system for the report, as he was the owner of the property where the car crashed. In your case, it was to document who the contact person was at the business where he was responding to the alarm. We call in names all the time for all kinds of reasons...documentation is what we do. If we don't do it and something happens later, it's our ass. So we document everything. Yes, there's a good chance the CAD system automatically checked it for warrants when dispatch entered it, but the officer didn't call it in because he was "fishing" or an "ass".

Thanks, you beat me to it

quote:

In both of these cases, the officer's intent in calling the name in was likely not to check for warrants, but to have dispatch add your friend's name into the CAD system for the report, as he was the owner of the property where the car crashed.

Bullshit. As someone who's been involved in emergency services for 30 years I can tell you for a fact that in my area, when they call in to the dispatch center with your info, they are going to run you for warrants and to make sure your DL is valid (for traffic stops).

Also, if its a traffic stop in your personally owned vehicle, they will know if you have a concealed carry permit before they even walk up to your car and then comes the "where's the weapon questions".

Least that's how it is in my area.

quote:

Bullshit. As someone who's been involved in emergency services for 30 years I can tell you for a fact that in my area, when they call in to the dispatch center with your info, they are going to run you for warrants and to make sure your DL is valid.

Also, if its a traffic stop in your personally owned vehicle, they will know if you have a concealed carry permit before they even walk up to your car and then comes the "where's the weapon questions".

Least that's how it is in my area.

Never said your name wasn't going to get run. In fact, I stated that it probably would. My point was that the officer wasn't running those names because he thought either of those people had warrants....he wasn't "fishing" or being an "ass"...he was getting them entered into the call for documentation.

It doesn't matter if I write your name down on my notepad, or if I call it into dispatch while I'm standing there talking with you. Ultimately it's going to get entered into the same system, and that system is going to check DL information and warrant info (and yes, if it's working properly, for CCW permit info as well). But there are plenty of reasons that names get entered for purposes other than trying to get the person incarcerated.

quote:

..... When all was said and done he asked for my ID and proceeded to check for warrants. Just fishing. Ass

I know a few LEO's in the area that admit they do just that, fishing. They'll pull cars for any reason they can to see if any warrant exists, also to get a reason or permission to search a car. We've had the discussion about how they get arrests of people all the time running IDs or getting the persons permission to search.

Now I know a few have said there is no reason not to provide the ID, however the point against that is, there is no reason an officer of any government agency should be asking you for the ID unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are involved in or wanted for a criminal action. Pulling you over while driving for an infraction, sure, pulling you over without a valid reason, in order to see if you have warrants and if you'll consent to a search of the vehicle without a warrant, No, Walking down a city street and being asked for ID? never should happen.

In short the "if you are not guilty then you shouldn't care if they question, film, monitor, check ID, question you" mentality is problematic.

Government agents/officers shouldn't be doing ANY of that unless they have reasonable cause, or a warrant. It's a reflection of how significant the changes in mental culture in the USA are post 9/11.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

So where do you draw the line then? You're ok with being harassed for simply walking down a public street, so what else do you simply comply with for no good reason? A search of your person? Your car? Your home? Yikes.

Prima Nocta?

This is a great place to expanded your knowledge.
Recently I learned that it is Capitol not Capital.

Today I learned a new term.
Prima Nocta - Prima nocta is the semi-historical legal right of a monarch to have sex with any female subject, particularly on her wedding night.

quote:

Originally posted by JWF:
Just ask Ramius.

Ha! In my case, the officer (I think he was the Chief or Captain) asked my name, I asked "What for?". I was immediately cuffed and taken to the station by some rookies. It escalated rather quickly.

If they would have said, "For the citation you're getting for (supposedly) working out in the gym where you shouldn't, you naughty meathead fitness enthusiast", I would have given my name and ID.

When I got to the station, and after they figured out what BS they were gonna charge me with, they asked for ID. It was in my bag and I told them where it was so they could access it.

I'll share an update: Luckily for me, I have a great lawyer. I've been to probably 8 or 9 zoom court appearances. The judge and I are old friends at this point. I can tell by his demeanor and grin during each appearance that he knows this whole thing is Bull.

At my most recent zoom court, last week, the prosecutor agreed to drop the BS Obstruction charge. That leaves the almighty "Defying Governors Orders" charge that the prosecutor is afraid to drop at this point, most likely for fear of pissing off the governor. According to my lawyer, the prosecutor knows it's a joke too. The next court date is at the end of March...hopefully by then, things will have chilled out enough that the remaining charge will be dropped and expunged as well.

Zoom Court Tip: I know I don't have to say this here, but dress in a suit and tie and behave as if you were in court. During each appearance, I, and all the other people waiting to have their court cases heard are visible to each other, as well as to the judge and prosecutor. Other than the lawyers, I'm the only guy dressed in a suit. Everyone else is wearing t-shirts and clothing that should NOT be worn in the court room and in my opinion, is disrespectful.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
[

And I asked you where you draw the line.

You seemed quite worked up about this topic.

I'm not worked up in the least. The question regards providing identification to a police officer, at the request of the police officer. Very simple.

I don't draw a line there. The officer asks to see the identification, I provide it. Simple.

No line. No problem.

You do seem bent on making a mountain of what doesn't amount to a molehill.

Might not be your best response to the question, but it's funny from here at the Comfy Couch (TM).