Ahh, I WAS right.......

My taxes? I never claimed to be the savior. But you claimed he is. Prove it.

He is a con artist. Show me the receipt from your contribution? Mine is zero. I don't donate to con artists.

Current net worth $18.1B.

https://www.forbes.com/profile...n-musk/#5b494a267999

85448 (current members) x Average median net worth 45-54 of $100K per (which I would say is more than generous assumption for the whole of the forum) = $8.5BN.

https://wallethacks.com/averag...th-by-age-americans/

$18.1BN > $8.5BN

Don't like my net worth assumption? Double it.

$18.1BN > $17BN



Hurry along now, don't miss your chamomile tea and AM radio shows.

And your contributions?

Don't tell me how much he has fleeced from the American people.

Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal.

You sound like a leftist!

Hey if you can't back it up just say so.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Don't tell me how much he has fleeced from the American people.

I believe that was your assertion, which we'll wait on.

BAHAHHAHAHA!

I think you are missing InfoWars my man.

Ahh yes, we call that projection. Don't worry, someday you may understand.

The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

Ironically, the same was said of Nikola Tesla in his time.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

Ironically, the same was said of Nikola Tesla in his time.

Sounds like a Leftist talking about Trump, ironically as well.

I sure wish I had some of the success he's had at 'failing'

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

Ironically, the same was said of Nikola Tesla in his time.

Sounds like a Leftist talking about Trump, ironically as well.

As I mentioned, anyone who uses an article from this ULTRA lefty SJW website as any form of persuasive argument is suspect in their motives or actual knowledge of facts. Substitute in the article every Elon Musk with Trump, and tunnel with "wall", and you have the EXACT same ultra liberal BS articles and wording they use to tear down anyone they don't like. They barely even try to change the words. Gawker sites will never bother actually back up their BS with numbers or facts, but rather try to cast aspersions on character without any actual proof. Words like "con man" "failed grand visions" sarcastic "because he's a genius".. All the same SJW bullets used over and over in different articles all used to for the same purpose.. At least sites like the DailyMail know they are serving entertainment as much as news. Jalopnik, Jezebel, and the rest of Gawker Media feed leftist fake news infested with SJW mentality.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

Objectively, this is pretty much where I'm at.

Not far off from Theranos.

Been in business a while - have seen guys like him before. They catch lightning in a bottle on one project (like his Paypal success) and are able to parley that 'cult of personality' into outsize investments from big money investors.

Problem is - they can't match actual success to the promises on the new endeavors. But the talk keeps coming. The bold wild promises. The incredible side projects to get your eye off the ball... Recent article from WSJ - Tesla has been profitable 4 quarters out of 40. Think about that?

4 out of 40. Ten years... If you were ANYBODY else -- and you made a profit only 4 quarters out of 40.. would you be held as a 'visionary'??

All the while - the market cap of Tesla is greater than Ford and Fiat Chrysler - COMBINED. Why? People buy into the hype but not the product. (He is making electric cars when - guess what - TRUCKS and SUVs / CUVs is what the public is buying...)

His main goal - IMO - was to do the same thing with Tesla as with Paypal - build it up to sell it to a Toyota, Ford or GM... Never happened and never will happen as the majors are greatly investing in electric / green cars of their own.

Tesla is going to go down hard - when ? Not sure. But eventually he won't be able to kick the can down the road any more. (cash burn rate is immense...)

Tesla owes $13 BILLION in debt and burned through $900 MILLION in cash in the first QTR...

Forget the 'he gets government subsidies' sidebar conversation -- his business model is unsustainable and his result - if produced by any other 'regular' business man or woman would be labeled abject failure.

Also remember - everybody got behind him during the Obama years when certain green industries were able to garner 'most favored' status. How many times did we hear that nonsense ad nauseum?

------------------------------------------

He's a very driven "innovator", unfortunately, who thinks like a millenial, despite being 48.

As such, he's a terrible administrator, must be a nightmare to work for, and seems to have no concept of truth.

But, I'm looking forward to picking up my Tesla in a few days, because its a comfortable, fast sedan, with a soft ride and good seats. No one else builds one, certainly not at their price point, and definitely not as fast.

He has interesting/good ideas, but they're always rushed, and there's not enough input from folks who know what they're doing.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The guy is a con man. Anyone who can’t see that is blind.

No, not a conman, far from it... if anything he is this generations Edison. The real conmen are United Launch Alliance who are charging us ten times what Musk changes for launches and Bezos who hasn’t accomplished anything compared to SpaceX.
And in addition, starting a groundbreaking car company from scratch. Yes, they are expensive but you don’t have to put your deposit down if you don’t want to... you can just wait a few (or many) years for GM and Ford to deliver electric cars.

Innovation isn't easy.

I don't deny that Tesla has serious trouble and that he plays the Gov't subsidy games - but then again most people on SS/Medicare are on some sort of Gov't subsidy, since they will draw more than they paid, but that's ok.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Innovation isn't easy.

I don't deny that Tesla has serious trouble and that he plays the Gov't subsidy games - but then again most people on SS/Medicare are on some sort of Gov't subsidy, since they will draw more than they paid, but that's ok.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla, Solar City, and The Boring Company play out. I expect there are lots of twists and turns to come in the plot. They may all ultimately fail and still achieve something in the effort. I’ve got plenty of popcorn, I’ll just enjoy the show.

I wonder how the numbers would look on SS/Medicare if constant dollars are used, taking inflation out of the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I wonder how the numbers would look on SS/Medicare if constant dollars are used, taking inflation out of the equation.

Agreed.

Nobody wants subsidies until someone talks about THEIR subsidies!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Innovation isn't easy.

I don't deny that Tesla has serious trouble and that he plays the Gov't subsidy games - but then again most people on SS/Medicare are on some sort of Gov't subsidy, since they will draw more than they paid, but that's ok.

Nothing to say on the Musk issue, but I must point out that it’s unfair to equate those paying to/drawing from Social Security, an involuntary arrangement, with businesses voluntarily seeking government subsidies. In fact, the difference is even more so when you consider that the business hasn’t contributed towards the handout, constant dollars or not.