At this point in time the only data I think is trustworthy and verifiable is from actuaries. They are working for folks with real money on the line and accuracy and completeness is important. It is difficult to hide bodies and life insurance companies have certain contractual obligations that are enforced.

Check out the work of Ed Dowd.

Christmas wish list:

1. Fauxi and/or Potato die of shot related myocarditis. Severe health issues for all those like EJ and corporate executives who blindly try to force the shot on the rest of us.

2. Insurance companies significantly raise premiums on the boosted (single shot - give them a pass); the more boosts, the exponentially higher premium rate.

3. Insurance companies sue .gov/pfizer/modena/et al for creating a shock in the risk analysis / actuarial assessments where the premiums far underestimated the actual risks and payouts required resulting from the shot.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
What’s truly sickens me is these parents KNOW damn well what killed their child. They KNOW it but won’t say a single thing about it. A 6 year old with myocarditis and blood clots?

They murdered their own child.

That is a little harsh. I’d say they killed their child via negligent homicide. They were negligent in believing the powers that be. They are certainly not alone, though many (most?) others have not paid such a high price so quickly.

As for not saying a thing, first they’d have to understand and accept that the institutions they trusted lied to them and their trust in those institutions caused them to take steps that killed their child. That is a hell of a lot to accept and digest, much less live with. It may be that in time they will come to realize that or they may never come to believe / accept that. I’ll not judge them either way. No way in hell was I taking the jabs, and I pushed hard for my kids and wife to avoid it as well (thank goodness they did avoid it), but I only have pity, not judgement, for those who trusted their doctors, the medical establishment, our government. These are all folks we are supposed to be able to trust. Some folks may take longer than others to get the memo that that ship has sailed and is over the horizon.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
You can't believe any infection or death rates from 3rd world countries, or countries with dictators (China).

They will cook the numbers every time. And even in 1st world countries, the medical establishment and media will hype the numbers to get more money from the govt or promote the narrative.

You can’t believe the infection or death rates period. 3rd world countries may not be able to accurately count or may be lying to minimize. At least some first world countries were absolutely lying out theirs collective backsides to maximize.

As Samuel Langhorne Clemens once said, “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned lies, and Statistics.”

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
That is a little harsh. I’d say they killed their child via negligent homicide. They were negligent in believing the powers that be. They are certainly not alone, though many (most?) others have not paid such a high price so quickly.

Perhaps. But there is an important nuance here. For the first round of shots, they get a pass. While these shots should have been considered high risk and known to be untested from the beginning, informed decisions may have been difficult with the information available.

But following rounds, especially for children, parents arguably and reasonably should have known that otherwise. There was probably sufficient information to suggest at least more due diligence if not aversion. If at this time parents intentionally ignored the data and/or didn't seek out more data, they are explicitly complicit. Due diligence was up to them, not the child. It's not enough to believe in the powers that be if data contrary to the powers is reasonably available but one ignores it because of political beliefs. That's beyond negligence in my mind.

IOW, it's not just simple negligence if data is available but you choose to ignore it.

quote:

Originally posted by leavemebe:
At this point in time the only data I think is trustworthy and verifiable is from actuaries. They are working for folks with real money on the line and accuracy and completeness is important. It is difficult to hide bodies and life insurance companies have certain contractual obligations that are enforced.

Check out the work of Ed Dowd.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2UowfJG6_8g" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

This should be one of the biggest news stories in history. The fact that the main media has no interest in this says much. I think it implicates the establishment globalist elites. They are going to have to feign interest in these excess morbidities at some point, or explain why no interest.

quote:

That is a little harsh

Perhaps, but the accumulating evidence is there for all to see. I guess I’m allowing my personal experiences to jade my outlook.

We have a family friend that my wife goes to for therapeutic massage. The woman is quite good. The family is 110% all in on the “vaccines” and requires my wife to mask for each session but doesn’t have the same requirement for people that have been inoculated. Obviously this flies in the face of the actual science because those can carry illness and sicken her family even more easily as they might be harboring the bug and not know it. I get a little pissed off when I think of the willful ignorance these people display when confronted with a valid discussion on the subject. I have no doubt that if one of their two girls who have no say in the matter dropped from a stroke, they would blame “unvaccinated” people rather than where the truth lies.

FFS, I thought this was over a year ago? Why is this thread still active, and why are +/-10% of people back in masks?

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
FFS, I thought this was over a year ago? Why is this thread still active, and why are +/-10% of people back in masks?

You got me.

I still maintain to this day that NONE of these elites; Biden, Pelosi, Fauchi etc etc ever got the Covid shot that was forced on everyone else. It was either something else developed for them or just an outright placebo.

Have you noticed that there are no government people dropping dead like the general population is seeing now?

Compliance at cdc? NIH? FDA? AMA? Amongst immunologists?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

Perhaps. But there is an important nuance here. For the first round of shots, they get a pass. While these shots should have been considered high risk and known to be untested from the beginning, informed decisions may have been difficult with the information available.
.
.
.
IOW, it's not just simple negligence if data is available but you choose to ignore it.

One of my daughters is firmly in the pro-jab camp. All 5 of her kids from age 2 to 16 are fully jabbed including now the bivalent booster.

I tried to talk to her early on but she shut me down instantly.

Here's the thing. She was aware of contradicting data but dismissed it as being much less believable because of the sources. She firstly trusts her doc. Secondly all the high officials with medical/scientific credentials, like Fauci et al. Thirdly the mainstream media which propagandized the hell out of it.

The dissenters appeared to be un-credible thanks to the media. A single doc who appears to speak out contrary to the entirety of credentialed science is the kook. If you don't have the inclination to look deeper, you write off that kook and his message.

At that point she decided that the consistent message (which continues still today) was correct and then has tuned out all of the dissent since then.

Propaganda is powerful. The media is in bed with the left, who made C19 a political hammer to use against Trump.

It is a failing that parents got their kids jabbed, but they were intentionally manipulated into it.

I’m very sorry to hear about your personal situation. Of course you know I was speaking broadly and that no personal offense was intended.

Propaganda is indeed an effective tool for the masses; it’s political/social marketing. Marketing is intended to appeal to emotions and it’s why it’s so strong when it works.

So first one needs to be aware that propaganda exists. Signs include disparagement of experts in their fields like the inventors of ivermectin and mRNA. These are not kooks.

I hope this all ends soon and ends well for your family despite the propaganda. You must be terribly worried about them.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I’m very sorry to hear about your personal situation. Of course you know I was speaking broadly and that no personal offense was intended.

Propaganda is indeed an effective tool for the masses; it’s political/social marketing. Marketing is intended to appeal to emotions and it’s why it’s so strong when it works.

So first one needs to be aware that propaganda exists. Signs include disparagement of experts in their fields like the inventors of ivermectin and mRNA. These are not kooks.

I hope this all ends soon and ends well for your family despite the propaganda. You must be terribly worried about them.

Absolutely no offense taken, and thank you for your sympathies. Yes, I worry every single day about my jabbed relatives and friends.

Someone upthread used the term "willful ignorance", and I concur that very many people made the decision to ignore conflicting data. It doesn't absolve them of their defective choices, especially when it results in harm to others. Their kids' illnesses (one of my granddaughters developed seizures after her second jab), economic disasters, social harms, job losses, and many other harms were done.

However, if these people recognize their errors and look for why it happened then I think they are due some forgiveness. That's for regular citizens not the politicians or media types who drove the narrative.

My opinion is that this all started in the very early days simply as a way to knock down President Trump. Had the leftists not gone there, then a more factual discussion could have taken place all along.

quote:

Here's the thing. She was aware of contradicting data but dismissed it as being much less believable because of the sources. She firstly trusts her doc. Secondly all the high officials with medical/scientific credentials, like Fauci et al. Thirdly the mainstream media which propagandized the hell out of it.

An important tweet from Elon Musk:



https://stevekirsch.substack.c...tter-home-page-today

Most excellent

The quote on that page, from RFK Jr's book:

quote:

Dr. Fauci’s strategy for managing the COVID-19 pandemic was to suppress viral spread by mandatory masking, social distancing, quarantining the healthy (also known as lockdowns), while instructing COVID patients to return home and do nothing—receive no treatment whatsoever—until difficulties breathing sent them back to the hospital to submit to intravenous remdesivir and ventilation. This approach to ending an infectious disease contagion had no public health precedent and anemic scientific support. Predictably, it was grossly ineffective; America racked up the world’s highest body counts.

Just when you think Musk has hit the pinnacle with a comment, he finds a way to reach a little higher.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Propaganda is powerful. The media is in bed with the left, who made C19 a political hammer to use against Trump.

It is a failing that parents got their kids jabbed, but they were intentionally manipulated into it.

I am also very sorry for your situation.

I was astounded that my siblings went down the same road, at least initially. I had considered them critical thinkers and not stupid and I couldn’t understand their decisions.

Through what I have learned from SIGforum, I have lost almost all faith in government, the medical profession, and the media (legacy & social). I am convinced that most folks in these groups are lying in support of the narrative. The most benign explanation is that it all started out in good faith, then the folks driving the bus were caught up in all the money and/or had gone too far down this road to admit that they made a mistake. I suspect that the truth is a *whole* lot darker than that.

Given the drumbeat from so many sources and the censorship of anything off message, how is someone who doesn’t have a trusted site like SIGforum supposed to figure out that all these folks that I’ve been taught to trust are lying to me. They’re all singing the same tune and everyone one of the bastards that are supposed to be trustworthy are lying. That is a pretty big leap if one isn’t exposed to reality. Thank goodness and parabellum for SIGforum!

I suspect most of us are in a similar situation regarding family and friends who gulped the Kool-aid. It started seven years ago, but the past three years especially have been the most divisive I've seen. Families and friendships severed over pure politics and propaganda.

My sister went off the deep end over Covid. She had her first child back in June, and said my mother could not even come to visit unless she was fully "vaccinated and boosted" because "the virus is evolving." I don't think it would surprise anyone here that it really bothered me. My mother was in tears on the phone with me. She's pretty solidly in our camp on this being a giant experiment at best, and an engineered extinction event at worst, and she had to choose between allowing them to put that stuff in her or never see her second grandchild. To say I have some very strong feelings about her being put in that situation, and then deciding to go ahead and go through with it goes without saying. I've had to force myself to want to keep up with my sister since all this. This was on top of her flatly refusing to come up to the family house and help deal with the aftermath of my father drowning himself in the bathtub, and then insisting we weigh out a third of his ashes to give her, then wanting us to deliver them to the front porch of her house for her to collect once we left. This, while we were on the way to the airport to wait seven hours for our flight back. I told her she could come to the hotel we were staying at for the night and collect him, and if she didn't want to do that, I'd scatter what was left of his ashes out behind the hotel dumpster - "I'm not offering contactless delivery for human remains." She showed up double-masked and madder than a wet hen.

I haven't asked and I don't know how strict her requirements still are, but it has gone from being something she brought up often to being something she does not mention. I haven't met my only nephew, and if my sister thinks I'm going to take the mystery syrum to be able to see him, then that's her decision to sever that family connection. My son hasn't met his only cousin and may never, because he isn't getting injected with that shit, either. Has he had Covid? Bet your ass! Twice that we know of! Once, he never showed or felt any symptoms, and the other, he complained of a sore throat one night and felt great the next day. Kid's got a robust immune system.

My mom isn’t a kool aid drinker but her and all her friends got one shot and one boost. They’ve all seen the light and honestly at 75 and older, there’s no way to know what the real cause of death could be when they all start to go. My wife is over 40 so hopefully she doesn’t get the sudden cardiac issues that the younger people are seeing. I’m still terrified that I’ll come home one day to find her dead for no reason. If you see a news story about a guy that went off the deep end after the sudden unexplained death of his wife in VA, there a decent chance it’s me.